Rossians and Russians

[Daniel Rancour-Laferriere]

Dear Jules,
Good question.  I think Tishkov had the idea that we would pronounce 
"Rossians" as if it were the name "Ross" (as in Fort Ross) with "ians" 
tagged on - so there would be no confusing [sh] sound involved.  It 
would rhyme with, say, "Panglossians."

Thus rossiiane would be Rossians, while russkie would be Russians.  The 
offensive nationalist slogan "Rossiia dlia russkikh!" (Zhirinovskii and 
the LDPR crowd) would come out "Rossia for the Russians!," and might 
sound less puzzling and exclusionary to the English ear than "Russia for 
the Russians!"  I can still recall cautious American Jews saying their 
ancestors were "Russian," and feeling that something was being left 
unsaid...

However, I realize Tishkov's proposal is probably unrealistic, for the 
habit of just using the blanket term "Russians" to refer to people who 
live in Russia or who come from Russia is firmly entrenched in English.  
I have not seen anyone utilizing Tishkov's terminology (correct me if I 
am wrong).  In my own book I utilized the term "ethnic Russians" 
whenever there might have been doubt that it was "russkie" I was talking 
about.

And then of course there is the problem within the Russian language 
itself of whether you can be "russkii" and something else combined.  For 
example, "russkii evrei" is a commonplace.  But "russkii nemets"? - I 
have heard it said that this expression is perfectly normal (e.g., the 
large emigre population living in Berlin), while others have said it is 
impossible.  And "russkii tatar"?  But "rossiiskii tatar" would be fine, 
would it not?



Regards to the list,

Daniel RL





Jules Levin wrote:

> At 06:05 PM 3/10/2006, you wrote:
>
>> 10 March 2006
>>
>> Dear Professor Condee,
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> Now let's get
>> back to the purer topics: opera, _zvonit'_, and the holies.
>>
>>
>> But what could be "purer" than the topic of "rossiiskii" vs "russkii"?
>> This is a linguistic issue (and therefore appropriate to SEELANGS), 
>> and it is an issue with enormous political consequences in the 
>> post-Soviet space.  It is an issue of great psychological importance 
>> to both ethnic Russians and minority peoples in today's Russian 
>> Federation.  It should not be trivialized.
>>
>> Daniel Rancour-Laferriere
>
> Okay, speaking as a linguist, how will Americans pronounce Rossians?  
> I would pronounce it [rahsee'uns], but I bet lots of Americans
> would pronounce it [rahshuns] in contrast with [ruhshuns].  But if you 
> say [rahshuns] out loud, it sounds like someone pronouncing
> Russians with a Russian accent...
> Jules Levin
> (sorry, I couldn't resist...)
>
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