Protivoslovo: typo

[Olga Meerson]

Sorry, what I meant is not the monstrosity of a "counter-discourse-discourse" but merely conter-discourse.

----- Original Message -----
From: Olga Meerson <meersono at georgetown.edu>
Date: Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:49 am
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Protivoslovo

> It is important that protivoslovo is like chuzhoe slovo in Baxtin. 
> Like all of these in him, including the trendy and trendily 
> misused word dialogue, what matters is that this word (actually a 
> whole layer of discourse) is embedded in the main "slovo". From 
> the contexts familiar to me in Baxtin, protivoslovo is nearly 
> synonymous with chuzhoe slovo but with a more pronounced irony, a 
> more direct reversal or detachment from the meaning with which the 
> implicitly quoted voice originally invested the word. Thus i eta 
> samaia Dunechka za eto samoe KZAHETSIA zamuzh idet! -- is chuzhoe 
> slovo (the italicized kazhetsia) but Makar Devushkin's "ia 
> perepisyvaiu" (meaning a whole range of things--some will say I am 
> merely a copyist but perhaps even being a copyist is not without a 
> point--I quote from Batin directly) introduces the unmentioned 
> "some will say" or, in Russian, deskat', and "they may be wrong" 
> (also the implied deskat' and what is implied by this deskat'). 
> What Baxtin means is a
> word (or a whole discourse) ironically divested of its original 
> meaning by its new context. This may be too long, but show me a 
> good existent translation of Baxtin's chuzhoe slovo.  All this 
> considered, I think the best of the available would be COUNTER-
> DISCOURSE-discourse. Nowadays it is fashionable to talk about 
> discourse in terms of physics or political science -- in the 
> plural, as mutually antagonizing forces. Using this word (counter-
> discourse) will remind to the reader how much this fad owes to 
> Baxtin's original ear and coining language. I think this reminder 
> is worth a lot.
> o.m.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lily Alexander <lily.alexander at UTORONTO.CA>
> Date: Saturday, May 26, 2007 2:50 am
> Subject: [SEELANGS] Protivoslovo
> 
> > Dear Colleagues,
> > 
> > Rereading yesterday Bakhtin, I ran into "protivoslovo."
> > 
> > I am surprised that I did not come across any attempts of its 
> > theorization.Of course Bakhtin invented many words, but this one 
> > may have slipped 
> > through undiscussed. It is used in his "Marxism and the 
> Philosophy 
> > of 
> > Language."
> > 
> > As with all of his invented words (or reinvented), it is more 
> than 
> > what 
> > just meets the eye. It  certainly will be more than just 
> > "vozrazhenie," 
> > counter argument, etc.
> > Slovo also connotes tale, myth, even epos, so it might have an 
> > extended 
> > meaning beyond "word."  But of course, for starters, "word" and 
> > "utterance" would be the subject of his discussion.
> > 
> > I have two questions. Have anyone seen or read (or written!) any 
> > theoretical work discussing it as a term or concept? I saw in 
> one 
> > semiotic paper - it was mentioned in passing.
> > 
> > How to translate it?
> > Trying to translate it, I came up with "antiword" (like 
> > antiworld), or 
> > "counterword" (like counter-culture). I saw "counterword" used 
> in 
> > an 
> > article in an journal on aesthetics simply as "vozrazhenie." It 
> is 
> > also 
> > interesting what both (or any other possible) translations would 
> > connote 
> > in English.
> > 
> > Antiword is part of the software engineering vocabulary. 
> > Counterword is 
> > translated in Multitran - definitely far from what Bakhtin 
> meant. 
> > See below:
> > 
> > Counterword
> > ??????????????????? ????? 
> > <http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?t=654038_2_1>; ???????????? 
> > ?????????? 
> > ????? ?? ??????? ?????????-?????????? ????????? 
> > <http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?t=1357637_2_1>
> > 
> > 1) a desemantized word, 2) an emotionally colored word with 
> faded 
> > [objective-logical] meaning
> > 
> > This will be something fossilized - exactly the opposite to what 
> > was 
> > meant by Bakhtin, as "I am feeling" :-)
> > Bakhtin was rarely interested in anything "stertoe," but rather 
> of 
> > the 
> > the things that "stick out."
> > 
> > Slovo provokes protivoslovo in his context. This would be more 
> > along the 
> > lines of passionate counterargument. Something polyarnoe in a 
> > dialoical 
> > context, coming out of opposition or provocation and stimulated 
> by 
> > debate.
> > Any thoughts?
> > 
> > Thanks you.
> > 
> > Lily Alexander
> > 
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