den' rozhdenija

[Psy Ling]

Я слышал, как о тенденции говорить "моё день-рождения" говорил  Норман, Борис 
Юстинович.лет так 30 назад... Как о переходном явлении типа "моё кофе", 


 Psy Ling



----- Original Message ----
> From: Alina Israeli <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU>
> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 9:23:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] den' rozhdenija
> 
> That older guy saying "звучит дико" is exaggerating a tad. The professional PhD  
>holding teacher is wrong.
> 
> I think most of us who are saying it correctly,  that is "moj den' rozhdenija" 
>endured strict drilling from mothers or  grand-mothers.
> 
> Grammatically it's quite simple: den' rozhdenija is  reinterpreted as one 
>entity — den'-dozhdenie. A quick search on Google for  "день‒рожденье" gives 
>About 71,900 results. And this entity should definitely be  neuter.
> 
> Let's approach the search from the other end: "мое день" gives a  whopping 
>About 188,000 results. I deliberately left out whatever could follow  den', it 
>could be spelled differently or it could be "den' varen'ja": "мое день  варенья" 
>About 17,600 results.
> 
> (Of course there are some non-Russian hits  mixed in as well, but the numbers 
>are so large, that there could hardly be a  doubt of its popularity.)
> 
> Fortunately, "мой день варенья" is a lot more  common: About 316,000 results
> 
> "мое день рожденья" — About 21,000  results
> 
> "мой день рожденья" — About 546,000 results
> 
> Fortunately,  the frequency of use proves the professional language teacher 
>wrong. We are not  there yet.
> 
> AI
> 
> 
> Oct 6, 2010, в 8:48 PM, John Hope  написал(а):
> 
> > SEELANGTSY!
> > 
> > I appeal to your collective  wisdom with a grammar question.  Today a young 
>native speaker newly arrived  from Moscow used the phrase день рождения было 
>(den' rozhdeniia bylo).  She  spelled the phrase день рождения correctly on the 
>board, keeping the genitive,  but used the neuter verb form.  When I suggested 
>that this was  grammatically incorrect, she told me that nobody now would say 
>"den' rozhdeniia  byl" or "moi den' rozhdeniia".
> > 
> > I'd just chalk this up to "kids  today," but when I asked an older native 
>speaker, this one a Ph.D.-holding  professional teacher of Russian, I was told 
>that, when using the possessive  pronoun, моё день рожденье (moe den' rozhden'e) 
>is preferable, i.e. using the  neuter form and the uninflected rozhden'e 
>(precisely that, not рождение /  rozhdenie).  I confess, I am unable to 
>understand how such a construction  is possible grammatically.  I agree that it 
>is widely encountered (as a  Google search demonstrates), but correct?
> > 
> > Another, older native  speaker and professional linguist told me he'd never 
>heard моё день рожденье  before, and said that it звучит дико.  I'm inclined to 
>agree, but not being  a native speaker myself I hesitate.  Is anyone able to 
>explain to me by  what grammatical understanding the uninflected form and neuter 
>modifier may be  considered correct?
> > 
> > Many thanks,
> > 
> > John P.  Hope
> > Colgate University
> > 
> 
> 
> Alina Israeli
> Associate  Professor of Russian
> LFS, American University
> 4400 Massachusetts  Ave.
> Washington DC 20016
> (202) 885-2387     fax (202)  885-1076
> aisrael at american.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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