AW: [SLLING-L] Plain verbs in signed languages

Wed Jan 9 19:19:07 UTC 2008

In our 1978 paper "verbs in American Sign Language " (SLS), Fischer &  
Gough discussed "locational" verbs, but as Padden noted, they were  
ambiguous as to whether they were "agreeing" with the subject or the  
object.  For example, if one signs ASL WANT  close to the addressee  
rather than in neutral space, it is unclear whether someone wants the  
addressee or whether the addressee wants something.

Susan D. Fischer
Susan.Fischer at rit.edu

Center for Research on Language
UCSD

On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:45 AM, Adam C Schembri wrote:

> Scholastica
> Padden (11983, 1988) does recognise that some so-called plain verbs  
> can be modified spatially, but she does not consider these to be  
> examples of agreement verbs because the spatial modifications do  
> not always unambiguously identify agent/source versus patient/goal  
> (see her work for the details). You will probably find similar  
> examples in HKSL. Engberg-Pedersen (1993) is one of the few  
> scholars to discuss this subtype of verb sign - she refers to them  
> as 'pragmatic agreement verbs'.
> In our work on Auslan, we refer to these signs as 'locatable  
> indicating verbs' (signs in which the whole sign may be displaced  
> in space but in which beginning and end points do not necessarily  
> identify agent/source and patient/goal) versus 'directional  
> indicating verbs' (which may begin and end at locations associated  
> with agent/source and patient/goal). Statistical analysis of  
> indicating verbs in data collected from a corpus of Auslan  
> narratives suggest that locatable indicating verbs do indeed  
> exhibit spatial modification, but significantly much less often  
> than directional indicating verbs.
> Note that we use Liddell's (2003) term 'indicating verb' because we  
> share his view that these signs do not show person agreement, a  
> view supported by Greville Corbett's (2006) recent book on the  
> typology of agreement systems.
> Adam
> PS My understanding is that Padden's term 'plain verb' was meant to  
> contrast these signs with those she claimed showed spatial  
> modifications for person ('agreeing/agreement verbs') or locative  
> information ('spatial verbs') and was not related to any claims  
> about aspectual modifications.
> --
> Adam C Schembri, PhD
> Senior Research Fellow
> Deafness, Cognition and Language (DCAL) Research Centre
> University College London
> 49 Gordon Square
> London WC1H 0PD
> United Kingdom
> Tel: +44 20 7679 8680
> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dcal
>
>
>
> On 9 Jan 2008, at 08:04, Daniela Happ wrote:
>
>> Hi Scholastica,
>>
>> in my research I found that the so called plain verbs aren´t  
>> really plain. They contain morphemes of person and space, f.e. the  
>> DGS (German Sign Language) verb BEZAHLEN (to pay). But the person/ 
>> space morphemes aren´t strong enough to identify exactly personal  
>> agreement or space agreement. In my work I call these verbs weak  
>> agreement verbs (schwach kongruente Verben). I´m sorry, my work is  
>> in German and not English, but if you understand German, contact  
>> me and I will send you an excerpt of the article I wrote with a  
>> colleague (D.Happ & M.-O. Vorköper 2005: Einige Bemerkungen zur  
>> syntaktischen und morphologischen Repräsentation von Numerus in  
>> Deutscher Gebärdensprache. In: Leuninger, Helen & Daniela Happ  
>> (Hrsg.): Gebärdensprachen: Struktur, Erwerb, Verwendung  
>> (Linguistische Berichte. Sonderheft 13). Hamburg: Buske, P. 97 ff.)
>>
>> To all: sorry for my ill english.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Daniela
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: slling-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:slling-l- 
>> bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Schola Lam
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. Januar 2008 17:54
>> An: A list for linguists interested in signed languages
>> Betreff: Re: [SLLING-L] Plain verbs in signed languages
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I think I need to rephrase my question. Sorry for any  
>> misunderstandings caused.
>>
>> I tried to adopt Padden's (1983, 1988) verb classification for my  
>> HKSL data. Yet I want to clarify the notion plain verbs. I wonder  
>> if what have been called plain verbs may not be really "plain" in  
>> terms of morphology (e.g. verb agreement, aspect, etc) when more  
>> studies are done on ASL and other signed languages.
>>
>> Did anyone observe that the so-called plain verbs may actually be  
>> marked with morphemes in signed languages?
>>
>> Scholastica
>>
>> "Mark A. Mandel" <mamandel at ldc.upenn.edu> wrote:
>> "Scholastica" (Nini Hoiting?) wrote:
>>
>> #I am a research student who works on Hong Kong Sign Language. My  
>> focus of
>> #study is verbs. I would like to confirm if plain verbs are generally
>> #unmarked for verb agreement and spatial locations.
>>
>> Dan Slobin answered:
>>
>> #By defnition, a "plain verb" is one that cannot move in space,  
>> and so it
>> #cannot mark agreement and spatial locations in itself. But in  
>> many sign
>> #languages (including Sign Language of the Netherlands, Taiwanese  
>> Sign
>> #Language, and others), there are "auxiliary" verbs that accompany  
>> a "plain"
>> #verb. Such accompanying verbs do move in space to indicate  
>> relations such
>> #as source-goal, agent-patient, and so forth.
>>
>> Denise Wetzler added:
>>
>> #In American Sign Language, verbs move. The movement itself  
>> contains a great
>> #amount of information. If want to show that I will go from my  
>> house to the
>> #bank and then to the library, these three locations are first  
>> established in
>> #the signing space. How I sign the verb 'go-to' then will show  
>> where I
>> #started from; went to; and where I ended up. [...]
>>
>>
>> It's essential to know what Scholastica means by "plain verb". Dan  
>> is evidently
>> assuming that S. has the same definition for it that he does.
>>
>> A sign that does not move in space can nevertheless mark agreement  
>> with a
>> spatial location, by its orientation and possibly its location as  
>> well. Example:
>> ASL PITY (open-8 handshape, palm toward object, middle finger  
>> repeatedly
>> bending).
>>
>> Clarification of Denise's answer: in ASL, *many* verbs move [in  
>> space], but by
>> no means all of them.
>>
>> -- Mark A. Mandel
>> Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania
>>
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