FW: Jones and Jones

[Frank Abate]

In connection with the recent thread on street names in Manhattan, I have to
share the following, from Queens:

The street names in the boroughs are in some ways reflective of Manhattan,
but they have their own patterns and reasons, too.  Generally, the boroughs
were settled later than Manhattan, and took over some of what was done
there, but also did their own thing, as they were totally separate and
independent places with no political tie to Manhattan at all (till 1896,
when the borough set-up was created).  Anyway, in Queens, specifically in
Long Island City and Astoria, which are hard by the East River just across
from Manhattan, the main drag is 21st Street.  Along 21st St., as one goes
north from the Queensboro (59th St.) Bridge, there are numbered, crossing
side streets.  The odd (to me) thing is that they repeat the same number
sometimes, so you pass (e.g.) 33rd Road, then next 33rd Avenue, while
traveling north up 21st St.  And sure enough, continuing north on 21st St.,
when you get to Astoria, just after you pass under the Triboro Bridge, you
cross, in succession,  21st Drive, 21st Road, then 21st Avenue.  (I'm not
making this up; I have photos to prove it.)  Finally, on the block along
21st Street between 21st Road and 21st Avenue there is a house whose street
address is "21-21" (in Queens the street addresses are often hyphenated, and
often, too, the first number is that of the numbered street).

So, there is a house in Astoria that can accurately be described as being at
"21-21 21st, between 21st and 21st".  Top that.  (Yes, I have a picture of
it.)

Frank Abate


On Saturday, Aug 17, 2002, at 16:38 US/Eastern, James A. Landau wrote:
> I'm aware that the numbered streets in Manhattan begin only above a
> certain
> latitude.  My question was why, in a part of south-of-14th-Street
> Manhattan
> where the grid is a reality, the numbers get abandoned.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses on this, but the short answer
is: those unumbered, non-gridded streets are generally from the
pre-grid days. There were many people who also wanted to go back and
grid the older areas such as the West Village, and then later, as
development moved north following the surveyed grid lines, grid over
areas such as Riverdale. These areas were, fortunately, saved so that
we may still have the pleasure, even today, of encoutering West 4th,
West 12th and West 10th Streets at a single intersection. The grid was
adopted in 1811 and was pushed for by and during the management of
DeWitt Clinton, who was mayor of the city and then governor of the
state.