WHEEL.bair.uh? (was "wheel barrels?")

[Dennis R. Preston]

I don't deny that there are plenty of nonstandard speakers (as I
prefaced all my remarks identifying) who do not l-vocalize. I think
I was even sympathetic. Perhaps I should have continued to say "in
those dialects which l-vocalize" in front of every assertion. Guess
it seemed unnecessary.

dInIs


>I deny Dennis Preston's major premise, "salva caritate" that is!
>
>What happens in cases where "barrel" and "barrow" don't fall together? You
>can't deny the existence of something that exists for millions of people
>just because it doesn't exist for you. Why not also deny the existence of
>other people themselves because even if they argue they exist because they
>think or for whatever other reason, that's not existence for you. Does
>"dInIs" exist in name or in person?
>
>T.M.P.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:06 PM
>Subject: Re: WHEEL.bair.uh? (was "wheel barrels?")
>
>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail
>header -----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>>  Subject:      Re: WHEEL.bair.uh? (was "wheel barrels?")
>>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>>
>>  Tom is  wrong. As I showed in my previous post, after 'barrel' and
>>  'barrow' fall together, there is absolutely nothing to keep one from
>>  being heard as the other (with the exception of the lexical frequency
>>  and familiarity facts larry has touched on and which I happily
>>  concede).
>>
>>  On the second point, I believe I showed this "lapse" (sigh!) specifically.
>>
>>  dInIs
>>
>>
>>
>>  >1. I don't think ease of pronunciation has anything to do with the
>>  >barrow/barrel confusion; it may have more to do with how the words are
>heard
>>  >spoken. Also, whereas "barrel" is heard as "barrow" by me and lots of
>>  >English users from my linguistic background (no questions allowed about
>this
>>  >murky issue please!) the reverse doesn't seem possible, i.e, "barrow" is
>not
>>  >heard as "barrel."
>>  >
>>  >2. Incidentally, the variant pronunciation of "barrow" as (BAIR.uh, in my
>>  >transcription) given in dictionaries compiled in the mid-1900's (Kenyon &
>>  >Knott, 1953, probably influenced by Webster's Third, 1961) -- how common
>is
>>  >it in current North American English? Does everyone say a compound word
>such
>>  >as "wheel barrow" as (WHEEL.bair.oh) all the time or, esp. in rapid
>>  >conversational style, lapse into (WHEEL.bair.uh)?
>>  >
>>  >TOM
>>  >
>>  >----- Original Message -----
>>  >From: "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>  >To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:17 AM
>>  >Subject: Re: wheel barrels?
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>  >header -----------------------
>>  >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>  >>  Subject:      Re: wheel barrels?
>>
>>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>>  >-----
>>  >>
>>  >>  At 10:41 AM -0400 8/11/04, Thomas Paikeday wrote:
>>  >>  >Bethany,
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >FWIW, here is my explanation of why you hear "wheel barrow" as "wheel
>>  >>  >barrel":
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >The "l" sound in that position is rounded, so is "w". The "-ow"/"-el"
>>  >>  >confusion, I believe, is borne out in similar phonetic contexts
>including
>>  >>  >"-al", "-il", "-ol", -"ul", and "-yl" if someone will supply examples
>in
>>  >>  >support of or against this claim by a non-phonetician.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >TOM PAIKEDAY
>>  >>  >www.paikeday.net
>>  >>
>>  >>  Tom, I'm not sure I buy this, however persuasive the phonetic
>>  >argumentation.
>>  >>
>>  >>  My wife purchased a wheelbarrow earlier this summer and since then
>>  >>  has referred to it consistently as a wheelbarrel.  (This surprised me
>>  >>  because she's from Greenwich, CT and doesn't have all that many
>  > >>  "folk" pronunciations in her dialect.)  I just checked and she
>>  >>  confirmed that she (like others who have commented) would always
>>  >>  *spell* it as "wheelbarrow" but usually *pronounces* it as
>>  >>  wheelbarrel.  She claims (essentially like Tom) that it's "easier to
>>  >>  say" as 'barrel", but when I grilled her on whether she'd say "bow
>>  >>  and arrel" because it's easier than saying "bow and arrow", she
>>  >>  acknowledged she'd be extremely unlikely to do so.  So I think the
>>  >>  folk etymological link with "barrel" is crucial in the former case,
>>  >>  whatever the phonetic motivation.
>>  >>
>>  >>  Larry
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Dennis R. Preston
>>  University Distinguished Professor
>>  Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic,
>>          Asian and African Languages
>>  Wells Hall A-740
>>  Michigan State University
>>  East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA
>>  Office: (517) 353-0740
>>  Fax: (517) 432-2736


--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic, Asian, and African Languages
A-740 Wells Hall
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824
Phone: (517) 432-3099
Fax: (517) 432-2736
preston at msu.edu