"knock" = "vagina", 1664?

[Jonathan Lighter]

Thanks, Joel. Unless I'm mistaken, the entire subject of British regional and nonstandard usage in the North American Colonies remains essentially wide open for detailed investigation.

  JL



"Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
  ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: "Joel S. Berson"
Subject: Re: "knock" = "vagina", 1664?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan,

Yes, Jesse has told me that the OED is not
interested in where a word was used, unless its
origin is American. (I wonder how many of Mather
Byles's, formerly Franklin's, "Drinkers
Dictionary" expressions are still thought to be of American origin.)

I do plan to submit anything interesting to
Jesse, and will let you know also. I will now
remember HDAS is interested in early American
uses, even if the origin is English, and (in
addition to antedatings) for slang will include
interdatings which appear to me to be the
earliest American example. In the case of
"knock/nock", as well as "coney", I am having
difficulty identifying the primary source (court
records), and am investigating a little further.

Joel

At 8/4/2006 01:00 PM, you wrote:
>Joel, as far as is known, this is the first
>American ex. discovered, too late to get into
>HDAS II, which has no entry on _nock_ (well, there *will* be addenda).
>
> Except for documented Americanisms,
> distinctions between the American and British
> lexicons before 1800 - and perhaps even later -
> are often moot. One suspects that all slang
> terms that were truly popular in Britain during
> that period were also current in America, but
> finding exx. of them requires the kind of
> specialist research that you've been doing.
>
> I'd be most interested in hearing of anything you may obviously turn up.
>
> JL
>
>
>
>
>"Joel S. Berson" wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the
> mail header -----------------------
>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: "Joel S. Berson"
>Subject: Re: "knock" = "vagina", 1664?
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>It's American (Massachusetts). How would I determine that it's unique?
>
>Joel
>
>At 8/3/2006 10:42 PM, you wrote:
> >The latest OED revisions include this kind of "nock" from
> >1611-1680. Is 1664 a unique American ex.?
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> >"Douglas G. Wilson" wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> >Poster: "Douglas G. Wilson"
> >Subject: Re: "knock" = "vagina", 1664?
> >-----------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------
> >
> > >I do not see "knock" = "vagina" in OED2. What does one make of: this
> > >from 1664?
> > >
> > >And thus she argues of the case:
> > >My knock doth piteously itch ....
> >
> >Maybe = "nock" in the sense "notch"/"cleft".
> >
> >-- Doug Wilson
> >
> >
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