masculine/feminine

[RonButters at AOL.COM]

In a message dated 1/25/06 6:39:43 PM, zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU writes:


> i think we're talking at cross-purposes here.  David Bowie's
> observation is, i think, correct: for lots  of people, the
> centerpiece of normative masculinity is desire for women (and not
> men); as a result, for these people, any gay man, no matter how many
> masculinity points he gets on all other counts, falls short of being
> a "real man".
> 

I was suggesting that David Bowie (or, more likely,Boondocks) was using 
"masuclinity" in a way that does not match up with the social reality.

A guy who wants to have sex with women but is effeminate in speech and 
gestures would certainly be perceived as "falling short of being a 'real man'," 
perhaps especially in the 21st Century--as opposed to when Arnold and In were 
youths, though even in that day it was possible to be "masculine" and still have 
sex with men so long as one was the inserter rather than the insertee. Sexual 
preference is obviously related obliquely to perceived gender roles (i.e., 
masculinity and femininity), but precisely because (1) sexual preference is covert 
and such things as mannerisms and dress are overt, and (2)sexual preference 
is not a simple matter of "homosexual desire" versus "heterosexual desire," I 
would hesitate to call sexual preference "central" to the concept of 
masculinity. Indeed, the typical male heterosexual crossdresser is considered less 
masculine, I would venture, than the characters in BROKEBACK, who--in 1965 or 
whenever--do not even think of themselves as "queer"!

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org