"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep...discussing lunch" (Ben Franklin?)

Towse my.cache at GMAIL.COM
Wed Jan 24 20:26:28 UTC 2007 

On 1/24/07, Bapopik at aol.com <Bapopik at aol.com> wrote:
> DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES--110,000 Google hits
> WELL-ARMED LAMB--92,300 Google hits
> WELL-ARMED SHEEP--19,400 Google hits
> ...
> ...
> Did Benjamin Franklin say this? It's not in the Yale Book of
> Quotations--maybe next time? Or does this come from the 1990s?

Various people have searched his writings for this aphorism and not found it.

"Lunch," for whatever it's worth, was not a common English word until the 19thc.

Nothing shows up with a search for  wolves/lamb/democracy in The
Making of America digital library of primary sources from the 19thc:
<http://www.hti.umich.edu/m/moagrp/>

One would think someone would've quoted it then, if the quote is still
around today.

--
Sal

Ye olde swarm of links: thousands of links for writers, researchers
and the terminally curious <http://www.internet-resources.com/writers>


> ...
> _http://www.nypost.com/seven/01242007/postopinion/editorials/lunches_with_wolv
> es_editorials_.htm_
> (http://www.nypost.com/seven/01242007/postopinion/editorials/lunches_with_wolves_editorials_.htm)
>
> LUNCHES WITH WOLVES
>
> January 24, 2007 -- Democracy has been defined as two wolves and a sheep
> discussing plans for lunch.
> ...
> ...
> ...
> (GOOGLE)
> ...
>
>
> _Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on  what's for lunch._
> (http://extlab1.entnem.ufl.edu/ih8pcs/vol5/v5n26.htm)
> The International Black Sheep Society WWW site  lets you post information on
> the Black Sheep in your family while  reading about the ones in other
> families. ...
> extlab1.entnem.ufl.edu/ih8pcs/vol5/v5n26.htm -  28k - _Cached_
> (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:dmJslgqrLrwJ:extlab1.entnem.ufl.edu/ih8pcs/vol5/v5n26.h
> tm+lunch+wolves+sheep+democracy&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8)  -
> _Similar pages_
> (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:extlab1.entnem.ufl.edu/ih8pcs/vol5/v5n26.htm)
> <NO
> <NO
>
>
> _www.letsrollforums.com :: View topic - 911 Documentaries Free  ..._
> (http://www.letsrollforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=130893)
> The Definition of Democracy is two wolves  and a sheep voting on what they
> are going to have for lunch.  America is a Representative Republic, ...
> www.letsrollforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=130893 - 37k -  _Cached_
> (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:iS-UaBfoxO4J:www.letsrollforums.com/forums/view
> topic.php?p=130893+lunch+wolves+sheep+democracy&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&ie=UT
> F-8)  - _Similar pages_
> (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:www.letsrollforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=130893)
> <NO
> <NO
>
>
> _The  Three Rivers Post & Standard » Elderly Vote to Stick Others  ..._
> (http://www.threeriverspost.com/2006/03/28/195)
> That is the uncouth nature of pure democracy,  where the proverbial four
> wolves (the majority of voters) and a  sheep (the minority of voters) get to vote
> on ...
> www.threeriverspost.com/2006/03/28/195 - 31k -  _Cached_
> (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:PHyrealZITEJ:www.threeriverspost.com/2006/03/28/195+lunch+wol
> ves+sheep+democracy&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&ie=UTF-8)  - _Similar pages_
> (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:www.threeriverspost.com
> /2006/03/28/195)
> <NO
> <NO
>
>
> _QI Talk Forum | View topic - Democracy_
> (http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2627&start=30&sid=bee6f4a96a2d0383722eddb04762c5ec)
> "A democracy is a sheep and two  wolves deciding on what to have for lunch.
> Freedom is a well  armed sheep contesting the results of the decision."  ...
> www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2627&<WBR>sta&sid=bee6f4a96a2d0383722eddb04762
> c5ec  - 46k - _Cached_
> (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:PJOcs1ANlyQJ:www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2627&start=30&sid=bee6f4a96a2d0383722eddb04762c5ec
> +lunch+wolves+sheep+democracy&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4&ie=UTF-8)  - _Similar
> pages_
> (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2627&start=30&sid=bee6f4a96a2d0383722eddb04762c5ec)
> <NO
> <NO
> <NOBR>(GOOGLE
> <NO
> _Of Thee I Speak: A Collection of Patriotic Quotes,  Essays, and Speeches -
> Page 34_
> (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0974566918&id=5dW8yQjuk18C&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&ots=nBoR9DoxWy&dq=lunch+wolves+lamb+democracy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=A-
> SlKcepAEvQQ8Ya8bUNTiGCyWo)
> by Steven (COM) Fantina - Reference - 2006 -  240 pages
> —Charles Carroll Democracy is ...  wolves and a lamb voting on what to have
> for
> lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!  ...
> <NOBR>Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what  to have for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the
> <NOBR>--Benjamin Fr
> <NO
> <NO
> _Red, White & Liberal: How Left Is Right &  Right Is Wrong - Page 306_
> (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0060734337&id=L1_Ra1rvDuUC&pg=PA306&lpg=PA306&
> ots=eaA36E1DfU&dq=lunch+wolves+lamb+democracy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=2Ffc-erArq9oRu
> NSIhoPX4pOz6U)
> by Alan Colmes - 2003 - 352  pages
> As Benjamin Franklin said, "Democracy is two  wolves and a lamb voting on
> what to
> have for  lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!  ...
> ...
> ...
> <NOBR>
>
>
>
>
> (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN059530804X&id=8PvQRYBMG-wC&pg=RA1-PA116&lpg=RA1-PA116&ots=Y8_u3yrAjI&dq=lunch+wolves+lamb+democracy&ie=ISO-
> 8859-1&sig=dnnscdfBM_CI93b3zolXPqhd66w)
> (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN059530804X&id=8PvQRYBMG-wC&pg=RA1-PA116&lpg=RA1-PA116&ots=Y8_u3yrAjI&dq=lun
> ch+wolves+lamb+democracy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=dnnscdfBM_CI93b3zolXPqhd66w)
> (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN059530804X&id=8PvQRYBMG-wC&pg=RA1-PA116&l
> pg=RA1-PA116&ots=Y8_u3yrAjI&dq=lunch+wolves+lamb+democracy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=d
> nnscdfBM_CI93b3zolXPqhd66w)
> _Gorgeous Robot Flesh - Page 116_
> (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN059530804X&id=8PvQRYBMG-wC&pg=RA1-PA116&lpg=RA1-PA116&ots=Y8_u3yrAjI&dq=lunch+wolve
> s+lamb+democracy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=dnnscdfBM_CI93b3zolXPqhd66w)
> by Jonathon Barbera  - 2004 - 196 pages
> Now there was a quote attributed  to Benjamin Franklin on the subject of
> democracy
> involving two on three wolves and a lamb voting on  what to have for lunch,
> ...
> ...
> ...
>
> _The Diluted Church: Calling Believers to Live Out of  Their True Heritage -
> Page 99_
> (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0976522209&id=l2pPznYMqHYC&pg=PA99&lpg=PA99&ots=_SYI5kL-p_&dq=lunch+wolves+sheep+democracy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=
> UqH86krFsfINXdG_wNCNAJ6ccKQ)
> by Timothy L. Price - 2005 - 276  pages
> He wrote, "Democracy is two wolves  and a lamb voting on what to have for
> lunch."
> Jesus faced the  same seductive temptation when He was fasting in the  ...
> ...
> ...
> _The Long Road to Peace in Northern Ireland: peace  lectures from the
> Institute of Irish Studies at... - Page  42_
> (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0853236771&id=65RuIVkntqsC&pg=RA3-PA42&lpg=RA3-PA42&ots=yFjOvA2yeJ&dq=lunch+wolv
> es+sheep+democracy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=OHPuWgSGTF_Rs6wJOlZXeNKherY)
> by  Marianne ( Elliott - 2001 - 266 pages
> In this sense,  democracy is not about how three wolves and a sheep  vote
> about
> ... up for lunch, but, as Isaiah Berlin puts  it, how the freedom of the
> wolves  ...
> ...
> ...
> _Ecology, Engineering, and Management: reconciling  ecosystem rehabilitation
> and service reliability - Page 89_
> (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0195139682&id=-8TlX3d4Qv4C&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&ots=BXbAwtyYVH&dq=lunch+wolves+sheep+de
> mocracy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=CFzDdUzqTXDYnyYQbzopki1J3jk)
> by Michel J. G. Van Eeten,  Emery Roe - 2002 - 270 pages
> ... in a  democracy has been likened to asking a pack of four hungry  wolves
> and a
> sheep to apply democratic principles to  deciding what to eat for lunch.  ...
> ...
> ...
> ...
> _http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin_
> (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin)
> Misattributions
>     *   Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
>     *   Widely attributed to Franklin on the internet, sometimes without the
> second sentence, it is not found in any of his known writings, and the word
> "lunch" is not known to have appeared anywhere in english literature until
> the 1820s, decades after his death. The phrasing itself has a very modern  tone
> and the second sentence especially might not even be as old as the  internet.
> Some of these observations are made in response to a query at _Google Answers_
> (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=389308) .
> A far rarer but somewhat more  credible variation also occurs: "Democracy is
> two wolves and a lamb voting  on what to have for dinner." Web searches on
> these lines uncovers the  earliest definite citations for such a statement credit
> libertarian  author _James Bovard_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bovard)  with a  similar one in the _Sacramento  Bee (1994)_
> (http://www.giraffe.com/gr_wolves.html) :
>
>
>
> "Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting  on what
> to have for dinner."
>
> This statement also definitely occurs in the "Conclusion" (p. 333) of his
> book Lost Rights: The Destruction of American Liberty (1994) _ISBN 0312123337_
> (http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0312123337)
>
> ...
> ...
> ...
> (GOOGLE GROUPS)
> ...
> _Electoral College_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/misc.misc/browse_thread/thread/62b51b7285db540/164e
> 84c6ab91c34c?lnk=st&q="democracy+is+two+wolves"&rnum=133&hl=en#164e84c6ab91c34c)     Group: _misc.misc_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/misc.misc?lnk=sg&hl=en)
> ... some might say that's a good thing. the founding fathers  had a good
> reason for
> making this a republic instead of a democracy. as  the saying goes, "Democracy
> is two wolves  and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner". ...
> Feb 26 1993 by Derek Reisinger - 74 messages - 43  authors
> ...
> ...
>
> _Shared sacrifice = TAXES! TAXES! TAXES!_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.elections/browse_thread/thread/24d08190f49dcc54/dd70755b35cc9908?lnk=
> st&q="democracy+is+two+wolves"&rnum=134&hl=en#dd70755b35cc9908)     Group:
> _alt.politics.elections_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.elections?lnk=sg&hl=en)
> ... John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ  85253
> (602-951-9326)
> j... at anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john  anasaz!j... at asuvax.eas.asu.edu
> -
> Democracy is two  wolves and a sheep using majority vote to decide what - -
> to have  ...
> Feb 20 1993 by John R. Moore -  311 messages - 89 authors
> ...
> ...
>
> _GayBashing question_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sex/browse_thread/thread/c8a60dceb413d43a/69eb969165c16683?lnk=st&q="democracy+is+two+wolves"&rnum
> =135&hl=en#69eb969165c16683)       Group: _alt.sex_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sex?lnk=sg&hl=en)
> ... but it is all too easy to impugn a racial motive, -- John  Moore NJ7E,
> 7525 Clearwater
> Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326)  j... at anasazi.com
> ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!
> john  anasaz!j... at asuvax.eas.asu.edu - Democracy is two  wolves and a ...
> Jan 15  1993 by John R. Moore - 103 messages - 42 authors
> ...
> ...
> ...
> (GOOGLE GROUPS)
> ...
> _problems with RTF_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.pmail/browse_thread/thread/d7096d70ef8cd68c/d75cc929e90edbd3?lnk=st&q="well-armed+sheep"&rn
> um=151&hl=en#d75cc929e90edbd3)       Group: _bit.listserv.pmail_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.pmail?lnk=sg&hl=en)
> ... Garrett Michael Hayes gha... at mindspring.com *  Democracy is two wolves
> and a sheep
> voting on what to have for  dinner. Liberty is two wolves attempting to have
> a sheep
> for  dinner and finding a well-informed, well-armed  sheep.
> May 2 1997 by Garrett  Michael Hayes
> ...
> ...
> _rhide and Windows95_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.msdos.djgpp/browse_thread/thread/9b20ee8a3aed81f6/ebc26da3f75fbd35?lnk=st&q="well-armed+lamb"&
> rnum=44&hl=en#ebc26da3f75fbd35)       Group: _comp.os.msdos.djgpp_
> (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.msdos.djgpp?lnk=sg&hl=en)      ... (FILENAME and
> PATH are shown as an  example...the case is the significance) What
> now? Dave D.  Dave Dawson Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on  lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed lamb  denying enforcement of the vote.
> Jun 11 1997 by Selfgovern - 8 messages - 7  authors
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

------------------------------------------------------------
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