words starting with "ex"

Tue Jul 24 12:40:17 UTC 2007

I really think that these issues ought to be taken up in detail with a trained phonetician who has experience in IPA and dictionary transcription.  There are conventions that are followed that might contradict the views of those who are not experts and who rely on impression.
  L. Urdang

Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
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Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: Tom Zurinskas
Subject: Re: words starting with "ex"
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Actually truespel book 2 puts the phonetic word first, enabling one to look
up the spelling of a word from pronunciation (assuming the spoken word being
looked up phonetically is spoken as in the talking dictionaries I used as
reference). In the truespel beginners dictionary, book 3, the first part
has the tradspel word first and the second part has the phonetic word first
(both alphabetically) for looking up both ways. This is actually the VOA
simplified dictionary with truespel added for a guide where no pronunciation
guide exists (ixists?)

Many dictionaries are from UK, and I think perhaps "ix" for "ex" is the norm
there. In USA I doubt it, but have nothing to go by but my ears, which is
all any of us have to go by. So do the majority of Americans say "ixcited"
or "ixperience" or "ixample"? I truly think not.

Better, if unstressed "ex" doesn't quite sound like a full "short e," to
call it an allophone of "short e" instead of "short i" or an allophone of
"short i". That would agree at least with the tradspel of it and I think
the majority way it is actually said in USA.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at
authorhouse.com.

>From: Laurence Urdang
>Reply-To: American Dialect Society
>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: words starting with "ex"
>Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:07:34 -0700
>
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: Laurence Urdang
>Subject: Re: words starting with "ex"
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Zurinskas (in particular)
> Would that it were true that people look up words in the dictionary to
>find out how they are pronounced by most of the cultured speakers!
> I think you'll find that most dictionaries show IPA [I] for the initial
>sound in ex- words; but it is not a schwa.
> L. Urdang
>
>Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>Subject: Re: words starting with "ex"
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Thanks Urdang,
>
>Actually m-w.com foespelz (phonetically spells) many of the words that
>start
>with "ex" with a short i. In every case the speaker dutifully says the word
>with a short i. This is apparently scripted. But in the case of schwa, the
>speakers have leeway, and it's been a bit of a challenge to determine the
>many sounds of schwa that they say.
>
>I personally do not think the majority of Americans say "short i" instead
>of
>"short e" for words that start with "ex". Americans don't say "stock
>ixchange". My other position is proactive on this, which is to maintain
>that we should keep letter/sound relationships whenever we can for ease of
>teaching reading and spelling. That's the way it was always meant to be,
>the alphabetic principle.
>
>The best English accent has the least exceptions (not ixceptions) to the
>phonetic patters of the written word.
>
>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at
>authorhouse.com.
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Laurence Urdang
> >Reply-To: American Dialect Society
> >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: words starting with "ex"
> >Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 07:30:43 -0700
> >
> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> >Poster: Laurence Urdang
> >Subject: Re: words starting with "ex"
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Your comment about the pronunciation of ex- words is more a matter of
> >phonetic transcription by M-W editors than a strict matter of
> >pronunciation. I call your attention to something that always confused me
> >in my youth (spent with M-W Second Unabridged, in which the final -y in
> >words like city were transcribed as "short i," in other words, a sound
> >identical to that in the cit- part. I could not understand which
>Americans
> >were saying (British-sounding) "siti" instead of "sitee," which is what I
> >was hearing. The same practices apply to the initial ex-often transcribed
> >as "igz-" rather than "eks."
> > It was not till I did the pronunciations for the Funk & Wagnalls
> >International Edition (1956) and the Random House Unabridged (1966) that
> >these sounds came to be transcribed as better described by the (IPA) [i]
> >sound, as in peek. The problem arose because of the convention of
>choosing
> >between the transcription of the unstressed "short -i" sound and the
> >allophonic "ee" sound, which most dictionaries use today.
> > L. Urdang
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> >Poster: Scot LaFaive
> >Subject: Re: words starting with "ex"
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > >Do you think this is correct for American dialect?
> >
> >Which American dialect?
> >
> >Scot
> >
> >
> > >From: Tom Zurinskas
> > >Reply-To: American Dialect Society
> > >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > >Subject: words starting with "ex"
> > >Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 03:36:18 +0000
> > >
> > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >-----------------------
> > >Sender: American Dialect Society
> > >Poster: Tom Zurinskas
> > >Subject: words starting with "ex"
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Words starting with "ex"
> > >
> > >There are 64 words in the top 5,000 words of English that start with
>"ex"
> > >according to the word-count analysis of English media text by Collins
> > >Cobuild.
> > >They are listed below. Of interest is how the first sound of "ex" is
> > >pronounced
> > >by the speakers in m-w.com. They may say it with "short e" or "short
>i."
> > >They are faithful to the phonetic spelling that m-w.com provides.
> > >Without peeking at m-w.com, take the test. Which words take which
> > >pronunciations for "ex." Do you think this is correct for American
> > >dialect?
> > >
> > >The words are listed in order of popularity
> > >1 example
> > >2 experience
> > >3 except
> > >4 exactly
> > >5 expected
> > >6 expect
> > >7 exercise
> > >8 extent
> > >9 explain
> > >10 explained
> > >11 extra
> > >12 expression
> > >13 extremely
> > >14 existence
> > >15 expensive
> > >16 exist
> > >17 extreme
> > >18 expressed
> > >19 excellent
> > >20 exchange
> > >21 existing
> > >22 examination
> > >23 express
> > >24 extraordinary
> > >25 experienced
> > >26 explanation
> > >27 examples
> > >28 excitement
> > >29 executive
> > >30 extended
> > >31 excuse
> > >32 exciting
> > >33 expert
> > >34 existed
> > >35 exposed
> > >36 examined
> > >37 excited
> > >38 exact
> > >39 expansion
> > >40 experiences
> > >41 exists
> > >42 exercises
> > >43 experts
> > >44 experiment
> > >45 examine
> > >46 external
> > >47 experiments
> > >48 expenditure
> > >49 exhausted
> > >50 exception
> > >51 expense
> > >52 expecting
> > >53 extension
> > >54 extend
> > >55 explaining
> > >56 explosion
> > >57 exploitation
> > >58 examinations
> > >59 extensive
> > >60 expectations
> > >61 exhibition
> > >62 excess
> > >63 exposure
> > >64 explains
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >According to m-w.com over eighty percent of the words start with "short
> >i".
> > >In the count of word instances in text, it's eighty six percent. I
> > >personally believe that this is more UK than USA accent.
> > >
> > >Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
> > >See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at
> > >authorhouse.com.
> > >
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>
>Laurence Urdang
>4 Laurel Drive
>Old Lyme, Connecticut 06371
>U.S.A.
>(860) 434-2104
>
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