antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)

[Wilson Gray]

I considered giving consideration to the work of Harris before I wrote
and decided, "Fuck it. I'm not going to make any attempt to account
for Harris's orthography, as opposed to the orthography here. Unless
it can be shown that Harris's orthography set a standard that was
followed by all other writers attempting to render into writing the BE
dialects of their localities, Harris's orthography, which I've found
not worth the effort to decipher, to the extent that I've read
probably less than a paragraph of his work in the original, is
irrelevant. Indeed, even if it could shown that Harris's work did set
the orthographic standard, it can not be shown that every writer used
it. It's not even true that current standard English, as native
speakers write it, has a single, invariant orthography. I know what
I've heard and, if I want to hear it again, right now, all that I have
to do is to call Cudn Lois or fire up the right blues recording.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

-Wilson

On 10/3/07, Dennis R. Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Wilson,
>
> It's very doubtful that this orthographic /r/ indicates a phonetic
> one. In reading the JC Harris stories, for example, folk who don't
> know southern speech interpret such things as Br'er Rabbit as BRY-er
> or some such silliness. We know, of course, that it is is "brother"
> (bruh) and that Harris was using the "r" to indicate vowel quality
> (usually wedge or lengthening, as in "bar" in your quote I think, or
> both).
>
> dInIs
>
> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >Subject:      Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >"When she say that, hit's 'Katy, bar _ther_ do',' then, _fer_ she's
> >gwine _ter_ do it."
> >
> >I assume that the passage is a bit of eye-dialect BE.
> >
> >Therefore, FWIW, I note that shwa [I spell it this way because I
> >choose to] is replaced by shwa+r in this way in some fairly rare
> >dialects of BE to this day. A ninety-ish cousin of mine from down home
> >in Texas uses it and I've heard it used by the odd speaker/singer from
> >bluesman to hiphopper. It sounds rather strange, hearing someone use
> >an "r" where nobody else does, whereas the person doesn't use "r"
> >where the standard, at least, does use one.`
> >
> >-Wilson
> >
> >
> >On 10/3/07, Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
> >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>-----------------------
> >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>  Poster:       Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at BABEL.LING.UPENN.EDU>
> >>  Subject:      Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
> >>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>  On 10/3/07, Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
> >>  >
> >>  > 1888 _Current Literature_ Dec. 499/1 When she say that, hits 'Katy,
> >>  > bar ther do, then, fer she's gwineter do it.
> >>  > [HNP Doc ID 229263831]
> >>
> >>  Sorry, missed some punctuation in there:
> >>
> >>  1888 _Current Literature_ Dec. 499/1 When she say that, hits 'Katy,
> >>  bar ther do', then, fer she's gwineter do it.
> >>
> >>
> >>  --Ben Zimmer
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >-----
> >                                               -Sam'l Clemens
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
> --
> Dennis R. Preston
> University Distinguished Professor
> Department of English
> 15C Morrill Hall
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824
> 517-353-4736
> preston at msu.edu
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
                                              -Sam'l Clemens

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org