Rosa/rowz@

Wed Apr 23 02:37:38 UTC 2008

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:09 AM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:
>  What do you mean "Why would I say something like that?  Why would you say "why would I
> say something like that?"

The way I saw it, someone was offering some help -- if you're really
that interested in phonetics, why not take a class?  You do have
universities near you, right?

I said "why would you say something like that?" because you were
taking as offensive something that someone said, and saying something
offensive in return.  Honestly, didn't your mother ever tell you not
to do that?  Where's your dignity?  Sometimes you act like a
four-year-old.  Some of the more patient people are trying to sift
through all of that and address the linguistic ideas that you are
putting forth, but it would be a lot easier if there was more wheat
and less chaff.

>  I'm familiar enough with phonetics for my application.  I'm not a linguist, but anybody can gather
> much information from the internet on phonetics.

Well, it really depends where you look.  And in order to know what's
good and what's bad, you have to already have some background.  Some
universities have their phonetics course materials online.
>
>  People that reply to questions of interest with "go read a book" are in my opinion abusive,
> supplying no anwer, offering nothing but derision.

I don't see it that way.  If one is going to challenge existing
practices or perspectives in a field, one should be quite familiar
with what those practices and perspectives are.  If someone tells me
to go read a book, I will do so with great enthusiasm.
>
>  Do you believe that all long vowels in USA English are diphthongs?

No, I don't.  And I don't believe that there really are long vowels
and short vowel in AmE either.  As I understand it* we haven't really
had long and short vowels in English for over 600 years, but these
labels, "long" and "short", have been retained as the vowels they
referred to changed.  Out of the five "name sound" vowels (as I prefer
to call them), [ei], [i], [ai], [ou], and [ju], I would say that [ei],
[ai], and [ou] are diphthongs.  [i] is not, and [ju] is not because
[j] is a consonant sound.  However, [u] is a usually a glide in
English, but since the beginning and ending points of the glide both
could be represented in a broad transcription as [u], I wouldn't
consider it a diphthong, but more of a slightly moving monophthong.
[u] is however a pure vowel when followed by [l].

>
* I've never had the pleasure of taking a phonetics course, but I have
read lots of books on phonetics, and continue to!  I have on the other
hand (and I'm a little embarrassed to say this here) taught phonetics
courses, but that's only because my own knowledge of phonetics far
outweighed that of the other teachers at the universities where I
taught up here in northeast bumfuck China.

Randy
>
>
>
>
>  > Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:31:01 +0800
>  > From: strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM
>  > Subject: Re: Rosa/rowz@
>
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>  >
>  > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>  > Sender: American Dialect Society
>  > Poster: LanDi Liu
>
> > Subject: Re: Rosa/rowz@
>  > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >
>  > Tom, honestly, why would you say something like that?
>  >
>  > And WHY are you so opposed to taking any phonetics courses, or even
>  > reading even any of the most basic phonetics textbooks?
>  >
>  > WHY???
>  >
>  > Randy
>  >
>  > P.S. And if you're really going to take an attitude like that, WHY do
>  > you have to do it here, of all places?
>  >
>  >
>
> > Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Tom Zurinskas  wrote:
>  >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>  >> Sender: American Dialect Society
>  >> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>
>
> >> Subject: Re: Rosa/rowz@
>  >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>
>  >> Why don't you take some classes and let us know what your teacher says. Remember, trust what your teacher says, not what you hear or think.
>  >>
>  >> And do you agree with MAM that all long vowels in American English are two-phthonged? Why don't you give us your own voice files as I have done here with qlippits to demonstrate. Or take a class and find out how.
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>  >> See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at authorhouse.com.
>  >>
>  >>> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:33:10 -0700
>  >>> From: blukoff at ALVORD.COM
>  >>> Subject: Re: Rosa/rowz@
>  >>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>  >>
>  >>>
>  >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>  >>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>  >>> Poster: Benjamin Lukoff
>  >>
>  >>> Subject: Re: Rosa/rowz@
>  >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>>
>  >>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>> I don't believe off-glides are part of diphthongs such as
>  >>>> for the long vowels. Off glides happen before some consonants and not
>  >>>> before others. To me all long vowels sound like one-phthong not two.
>  >>>> I'd be glad to hear words spoken in m-w.com that illustrate the
>  >>>> difference.
>  >>>
>  >>> Where are you located? Perhaps a phonetics class at your local university
>  >>> would help.
>  >>>
>  >>> I also remember some IPA training software from the 90s which would
>  >>> pronounce each sound alone and in context.
>  >>>
>  >>> Basically, the key is ear training.
>  >>>
>  >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>  >>
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>  >>
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>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Randy Alexander
>  > Jilin City, China
>  >
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--
Randy Alexander
Jilin City, China

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