"hot dog" T.A. Dorgan story in St. Louis Post-Dispatch (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Laurence Horn]

At 6:21 PM -0400 7/5/08, Wilson Gray wrote:
>Time seems once again to have left me in the lurch. A TV commercial a
>moment ago was for Hebrew National *wieners* and not for Hebrew
>National *frankfurters.*
>
>-Wilson

Hmph.  Contradicting my claim as well from yesterday's exchange:

=========
For me, there's at least a connotative difference.  Franks for me are
more serious, at least potentially more flavorful and more ethnic,
e.g. in the form of Hebrew National all-beef franks (#wienies).
Wienies or wieners are what kids eat, the ones that are labeled
"extra mild" in the cooler at the supermarket.  Maybe I associate
"wiener" with, well, "I wish I was an Oscar Meyer wiener" and with
=========
Hebrew National wieners, my....   Well anyway, it's just *wrong*.

L

P.S.  and it's not really true that they snip off the end of them
>
>On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>  Subject:      Re: "hot dog" T.A. Dorgan story in St. Louis Post-Dispatch
>>               (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  I once asked an Australian friend whether she could use a wallet-sized
>>  calendar. She confusedly replied, "Well, you just look at it, don't
>>  you?" Apparently, in Australian English, "can you use ...?" can not
>>  include the meaning, "do you  have a use for ...?"
>>
>>  But, to answer your question, a "wienie" is (was?) relatively long and
>>  slender. So, if you went to FootLong, "Down on Sarah Street" (the
>>  title of an obscure-to-non-black-Saint-Louisans blues), you got a "hot
>>  dog" made with a wienie about as thick as a man's thumb and literally
>>  a foot long.
>>
>>  OTOH, a "frank(furter) sangwich" was made with a hot-dog bun, but it
>>  contained a shorter (even than a regular wienie, let alone a
>>  foot-long), somewhat thicker sausage like unto a Hebrew National
>>  frankfurter or a German bratwurst or such like.
>>
>>  That is, the gourmand could tell them apart just by looking at them.
>>
>>  At that time, in that place, the frank sangwich was generally more
>>  popular amongst the colored than the ordinary hot dog, but not for any
>>  special reason that I know of. It was just local custom. Indeed, the
>>  same may even have been true of the local white population, but
>>  segregation generally prevented whites and blacks from eating together
>>  in public places.
>>
>>  -Wilson
>>
>>  -Wilson
>>
>>  On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Mark Mandel <thnidu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  Poster:       Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
>>>  Subject:      Re: "hot dog" T.A. Dorgan story in St. Louis Post-Dispatch
>>>               (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>  On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>  In 1901, the name "hot dog" began to overtake "frankfurter,"
>>>>>  "red hot," "dachshund," "frank" and "wiener."
>>>>
>>>>  Not quite, among the black Saint Louisans of my youth, for whom
>>>>  "frankfurters" and "wienies" were distinct
>>>
>>>  Indeed?! How, pray tell?
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  Mark Mandel
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>>  come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>  -----
>>   -Sam'l Clemens
>>
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>  -Sam'l Clemens
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org