antedating (?) of "hep" 1907 (Hip and hep)

[Paul]

paul johnson wrote:
I read the book first for the "dirty parts" Almost like to reread it
today even though I know the 'make out'  parts won't as erotic as I
remember them.

Wilson Gray wrote:
> "The Amboy Dukes"?! I saw that movie, too! I found it bleeping
> riveting! It changed my entire perception of the Greater New York City
> Metropolitan Area and made me satisfied with just seeing pictures of
> the Empire State Building.
>
> Of course, today's street gangs would die laughing at zip guns, clubs,
> and bicycle chains.
>
> -Wilson
>
> On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Paul <paulzjoh at mtnhome.com> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Paul <paulzjoh at MTNHOME.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: antedating (?) of "hep" 1907 (Hip and hep)
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> paul johnson wrote:
>> That's the shoe!  First made popular to me by "The Amboy Dukes" by
>> Irving Shulman. (Boy I thought they were hep)
>>  Good looking and made for street fighting.
>> To be honest, anything south of Joliet was Terra Incognito to us back
>> then, then i met this girl and......
>> Wilson Gray wrote:
>>
>>> "Brogans"? What style of shoe was that? 'Cause, as it says on Bo
>>> Diddley's jam, _Hey, Man_, "Them ain't no shoes. Them brogans!"
>>> [brog&nz] or _bro-gans_, by which was meant "workshoes."
>>>
>>> There was a kind of big, heavy, but cool dress-shoe - usually wingtips
>>> with outside welt and double-stitched soles noticeably wider than the
>>> shoes' uppers - called "floats," originally a nickname for
>>> Florsheim's, popular in Saint Louis, Missouri. (Back in the day,
>>> Chicagoans would ask you where you were from. If you answered merely
>>> "Saint Louis," Chicagoans would then ask, "Illinois or Missouri?",
>>> though they knew damned well that it's *East*..., known merely as
>>> "East Side" to Saint Louisans, that's in Illinois. They just liked to
>>> mess with us hix from the stix. From the POV of black Louietowners,
>>> Chicago was "The City.") These were worn with the Mister B collar and
>>> the one-button roll.
>>>
>>> Anyway, does that sound like what you mean by "brogans"?
>>>
>>> -Wilson
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Paul <paulzjoh at mtnhome.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Paul <paulzjoh at MTNHOME.COM>
>>>> Subject:      Re: antedating (?) of "hep" 1907 (Hip and hep)
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> paul johnson wrote
>>>>  paulzjoh at mtnhome.com
>>>>
>>>> hip vs hep
>>>> In my misspent (happily, I may add) youth when I had a grey flannel one
>>>> button roll, a black Mr B collar, Flagg Bros Brogans, a key chain 3/4 of
>>>> the way to my knees, two inch cuffs, and a charcoal porkpie, I clearly
>>>> remember the shift in Chicago from Hep to hip at about 1948 to 50. You
>>>> were a hepcat in the '40's and had morphed into a hipster by '52 at the
>>>> latest.
>>>>
>>>> George Thompson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [The  Actor's Boarding House and Other Stories, By Helen Green] was
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> published in 1907 but it says that the stories have all appreared in (NY?)
>>>>>> Morning Telegraph (in 1906?).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

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