antedating (?) of "hep" 1907 (Hip and hep)

[Wilson Gray]

"The Amboy Dukes" began life as a *book*?! "You don't say so!" as my
grandparents would say. Why are such seemingly-trivial but important
items of information not imparted to black people?! Whadup wit dat? It
ain't cool *one* pound!

-Wilson

On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Paul <paulzjoh at mtnhome.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Paul <paulzjoh at MTNHOME.COM>
> Subject:      Re: antedating (?) of "hep" 1907 (Hip and hep)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> paul johnson wrote:
> I read the book first for the "dirty parts" Almost like to reread it
> today even though I know the 'make out'  parts won't as erotic as I
> remember them.
>
> Wilson Gray wrote:
>> "The Amboy Dukes"?! I saw that movie, too! I found it bleeping
>> riveting! It changed my entire perception of the Greater New York City
>> Metropolitan Area and made me satisfied with just seeing pictures of
>> the Empire State Building.
>>
>> Of course, today's street gangs would die laughing at zip guns, clubs,
>> and bicycle chains.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Paul <paulzjoh at mtnhome.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Paul <paulzjoh at MTNHOME.COM>
>>> Subject:      Re: antedating (?) of "hep" 1907 (Hip and hep)
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> paul johnson wrote:
>>> That's the shoe!  First made popular to me by "The Amboy Dukes" by
>>> Irving Shulman. (Boy I thought they were hep)
>>>  Good looking and made for street fighting.
>>> To be honest, anything south of Joliet was Terra Incognito to us back
>>> then, then i met this girl and......
>>> Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Brogans"? What style of shoe was that? 'Cause, as it says on Bo
>>>> Diddley's jam, _Hey, Man_, "Them ain't no shoes. Them brogans!"
>>>> [brog&nz] or _bro-gans_, by which was meant "workshoes."
>>>>
>>>> There was a kind of big, heavy, but cool dress-shoe - usually wingtips
>>>> with outside welt and double-stitched soles noticeably wider than the
>>>> shoes' uppers - called "floats," originally a nickname for
>>>> Florsheim's, popular in Saint Louis, Missouri. (Back in the day,
>>>> Chicagoans would ask you where you were from. If you answered merely
>>>> "Saint Louis," Chicagoans would then ask, "Illinois or Missouri?",
>>>> though they knew damned well that it's *East*..., known merely as
>>>> "East Side" to Saint Louisans, that's in Illinois. They just liked to
>>>> mess with us hix from the stix. From the POV of black Louietowners,
>>>> Chicago was "The City.") These were worn with the Mister B collar and
>>>> the one-button roll.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, does that sound like what you mean by "brogans"?
>>>>
>>>> -Wilson
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Paul <paulzjoh at mtnhome.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster:       Paul <paulzjoh at MTNHOME.COM>
>>>>> Subject:      Re: antedating (?) of "hep" 1907 (Hip and hep)
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> paul johnson wrote
>>>>>  paulzjoh at mtnhome.com
>>>>>
>>>>> hip vs hep
>>>>> In my misspent (happily, I may add) youth when I had a grey flannel one
>>>>> button roll, a black Mr B collar, Flagg Bros Brogans, a key chain 3/4 of
>>>>> the way to my knees, two inch cuffs, and a charcoal porkpie, I clearly
>>>>> remember the shift in Chicago from Hep to hip at about 1948 to 50. You
>>>>> were a hepcat in the '40's and had morphed into a hipster by '52 at the
>>>>> latest.
>>>>>
>>>>> George Thompson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> [The  Actor's Boarding House and Other Stories, By Helen Green] was
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> published in 1907 but it says that the stories have all appreared in (NY?)
>>>>>>> Morning Telegraph (in 1906?).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>
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