Odd rhyme claim

Thu Dec 17 03:49:45 UTC 2009

In "patriotic," the sound of the "o" is "ah," as in the final syllable of
"moron."

The sound the "a" is "ay" as in "lamebrain."

JL

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Odd rhyme claim
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> But what sound does the "o" in "patriodic" have.  Could it be the sound in
> "on, off, to, go, of, pilot"?  And the "i"s have two different sounds, I
> assume?  And the "a" is as in "pay"?
>
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>
>
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I say PAY-tree-it. And "patriodic" (with a flap).
> >
> > Always have, always will.
> >
> > JL
> > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:56 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
> >> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> How do we say "patriot" now. From thefreedictionary.com I hear
> >> PAY-tree-it (~paetree'it) for USA and PAY-tree-et (~paetree'et) for UK.
> >>
> >> The word "patriotic" in USA becomes pay-tree-AH-dik (~paetree"aadik),
> while
> >> in UK it's pad-ree-AH-tic (~padree"aatik).
> >>
> >> Note the changes in pronouncing letter "t" the second most popular
> letter
> >> in English text (ref truespel book 4). I just did a analysis of
> >> pronunciation of the letter "t". It's at http://justpaste.it/mq
> >>
> >> Note that the words "awe" and "ah" both spell vowel phonemes, but use a
> >> consonant. This is bad form for a phonetic respell system. Truespel uses
> >> ~au for "awe" and ~aa for "ah". In text the appearance of tradstreeng
> "au"
> >> does excede "aw" for spelling the "awe" sound, although "al" is tops
> (ref.
> >> truespel book 4). The "ah" sound is spelled by letter "o" twice as often
> as
> >> letter "a", but both those letters spell other sounds more often, so
> "aa"
> >> was chosen to phonetically spell the "ah" sound in truespel. This is
> done
> >> by BCC text spelling for phonetics as well.
> >>
> >> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> >> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >>
> >>
> >>> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:56:19 -0500
> >>> From: Berson at ATT.NET
> >>> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>> Poster: "Joel S. Berson"
> >>> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> At 12/15/2009 11:00 PM, Jerome Foster wrote:
> >>>>For a current example listen to Click and Clack, the Magliozzi brothers
> >> on
> >>>>NPR.
> >>>
> >>> Do they say "ought" ("awt") -- which I can't relate to "patriot",
> >>> even in New England, or "ott", as in the baseball player Mel -- which
> >>> I can imagine in New England for both "patriot" and "thought"
> >>> ("thott" -- the vowel a little like "cah" for "carr"?) I'll have to
> >>> listen next Saturday.
> >>>
> >>> Joel
> >>>
> >>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>From: "Tom Zurinskas"
> >>>>To:
> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:22 PM
> >>>>Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail
> >>>>>header -----------------------
> >>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>>>Poster: Tom Zurinskas
> >>>>>Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> >>
>
> >>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Patriot" rhyming with thought" wouldn't work for me from Conn. but
> for
> >> my
> >>>>>=
> >>>>>neighbor from Mass it would. For her "ot" would be spoken "ought". The
> >>>>>le=
> >>>>>tter "o" often took the "awe" sound. She would call me ~Taumee (~au as
> >> in
> >>>>>=
> >>>>>"awe") and her son as ~Baubee (Bobby). This is over 40 years ago.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Tom Zurinskas=2C USA - CT20=2C TN3=2C NJ33=2C FL7+=20
> >>>>>see truespel.com phonetic spelling
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>>>Date: Tue=2C 15 Dec 2009 16:27:28 -0500
> >>>>>>From: wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
> >>>>>>Subject: Odd rhyme claim
> >>>>>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail
> >>>>>>header -----------------=
> >>>>>------
> >>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> >>>>>>Subject: Odd rhyme claim
> >>
>
> >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >>>>>------
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>The poet John Hollander asserts that New England is "the only region
> of
> >>>>>>t=
> >>>>>he
> >>>>>>nation" (or was in Emerson's time) "in whose dialect _patriot_ rhymes
> >>>>>>wit=
> >>>>>h
> >>>>>>_thought_."
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>Really? I'd have guessed that _patriot_ "rhymes" with _thought_
> nowhere
> >>>>>>o=
> >>>>>n
> >>>>>>Panet Earth. Or is Hollander being facetious at Emerson's expense?
> >> Yeah=
> >>>>>=2C
> >>>>>>that must be it. Sorry.
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>On the other hand....I'm curious.
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>JL
> >>>>>>=20
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> >>
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> >> 12/15/09
> >>>>11:58:00
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