Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"

Sun Feb 22 04:01:17 UTC 2009

At 3:42 AM +0000 2/22/09, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>What sound was that again?  Sample word?
>

A low back rounded vowel, as described; lower and
backer than [O] (open o).  It appears canonically
in the RP (or "BBC") pronunciation of words like
"pot".  I don't have it in my dialect, but (like
many US English speakers) have the unrounded
variety of the low back vowel, for which the IPA
symbol is a script a.  I'm not sure how these
would be distinguished in truespel.

LH

>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>see truespel.com
>
>
>>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the
>>mail header -----------------------
>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>  Poster: Laurence Horn
>>  Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  At 4:03 PM -0500 2/21/09, Paul Johnston wrote:
>>>Sorry about this--I'm trying to represent the low back rounded vowel
>>>here.
>>
>>  Ah, my bad. What I thought was a capital D was actually a
>>  steroid-infused upside-down script a (that last character should be
>>  viewed in a font like Comic Sans).
>>
>>  LH
>>
>>>
>>>Paul Johnston
>>>On Feb 21, 2009, at 3:48 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>>>
>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>Poster: Laurence Horn
>>>>Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>---------
>>>>
>>>>At 3:29 PM -0500 2/21/09, Paul Johnston wrote:
>>>>>The dialects that have this are either non-rhotic now, or
>>>>>historically were so. There's a merger of an earlier /wOnt/~/wDnt/ =
>>>>>were not, with early /r/ dropping before alveolars, stemming from
>>>>>some sort of Eastern English settlement, most probably, with the /
>>>>>wont/ from will not, it seems to me. The distribution listed (New
>>>>>England + E VA, E NC) is consistent with settlement from East Anglia
>>>>>(North) and the Northeast Midlands (South), both areas of which have
>>>>>this /r/ dropping, and something like /D/ or /^/ for this vowel.
>>>>
>>>>Can you remind me (and maybe us) of what /D/ is in the system you're
>>>>assuming? In the version of ASCII IPA I use, it's the initial
>>>>consonant of "this", which it clearly isn't in this context.
>>>>
>>>>LH
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Paul Johnston
>>>>>On Feb 20, 2009, at 8:34 PM, Bill Palmer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>Poster: Bill Palmer
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>---------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The "won't" that is articulated in eastern NC in the sense I have
>>>>>>described
>>>>>>is clearly what most of us would interpret as the normal
>>>>>>contraction of
>>>>>>"will not". No "r" sound is discerned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bill P.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Mark Mandel"
>>>>>>To:
>>>>>>Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:14 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>>>>>header -----------------------
>>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>Poster: Mark Mandel
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>----------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Bill Palmer
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well, I appreciate that explanation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So let me move on to a question that I think this list is
>>>>>>>>supposed to
>>>>>>>>address. If not, then just slam-dunk me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In North Carolina, where I live, and particularly in the eastern
>>>>>>>>part,
>>>>>>>>there
>>>>>>>>is a tendency to use "won't" to mean "was not" or "were not".
>  >>>>>>>Ex: Q: "Who ate that last piece of pie?"
>>>>>>>>  A: "It won't me".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Does this practice exist anywhere else? I have lived in and
>>>>>>>>travelled
>>>>>>>>thru
>>>>>>>>much of the South, and don't recall hearing it anywhere else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bill Palmer
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I can't reply knowledgeably, but let me assure you that in terms of
>>>>>>>appropriateness your question IS a slam-dunk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is this the pronunciation I've seen written as "warn't" in the same
>>>>>>>sort of context? "about 198,000" rgh ("raw Google hits") for
>>>>>>>"warn't".
>>>>>>>The first page or so shows a few ringers, but most of them look
>>>>>>>real,
>>>>>>>such as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>- it warn't always like this [blog title]
>>>>>>>- What does 'there warn't much sand in my craw' mean?
>>>>>>>- Day 140: "We said there warn't no home like a raft, after all.
>>>>>>>Other places do seem so cramped up and smothery, but a raft don't.
>>>>>>>You
>>>>>>>feel mighty free and easy and comfortable on a raft."
>>>>>>>- And when it come to character, warn't it Compeyson as had been to
>>>>>>>the school, and warn't it his schoolfellows as was in this position
>>>>>>>and in that...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Those last two are from Twain (Huckleberry Finn) and Dickens!
>>>>>>>(_Great
>>>>>>>Expectations_, in Google Book Search, http://tinyurl.com/d5qndc)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mark A. Mandel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>
>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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