Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"

Sun Feb 22 04:10:50 UTC 2009

Worlds collide.

I don't need your vulgar world.

I'm here for kids.  Simple phonetic spelling.  Simplicity of standardized pronunciation in a way most communicative.  Simple teaching for enhanced learning of English.

What's important to you has zero importance to me.  In fact it saddens me.  Slang dosen't bother me.  Gratuitous vulgarity does.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com

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> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:09:00 -0500
> From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Laurence Horn
> Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 5:11 PM -0600 2/21/09, Gerald Walton wrote:
>>> So I'm wondering why so many academics enjoy using obscene or scatalogical
>>> terms in these "scholarly" postings. I'm wondering if those who ply their
>>> trade in classrooms & libraries feel like they need to demonstrate that
>>> they are really pretty edgy.
>>
>>I had a forty-year career in university teaching and administration.
>>I didn't use obscenity in the classroom or elsewhere simply because,
>>unlike Scot, I never felt that I needed to use obscene words as
>>"exactly the word[s] necessary for a given thought." I, however, am
>>not bothered in the least if others use it. I agree that "we are all
>>mature enough to handle the occasional
>>obscenity." In my view, far fewer obscene or scatalogical words are
>>used in classrooms and libraries than are used in other parts of our world.
>>Gerald
>
> Doesn't it depend on what you're teaching? I teach a class in words
> and word-formation, and would find it extremely difficult discussing
> infixing without going into the rules for "fuckin" insertion, which
> have been described extensively in the professional literature (cf.
> McCawley on where you can shove infixes) and constitute a superb
> illustration of tacit rule-learning (given that our parents and
> teachers never taught us that while "Massa-fuckin-chusetts" is
> well-formed, we should never say "Connecti-fuckin-cut", because of
> the metrical constraints we'd be violating). Nor am I prepared to
> eliminate "FUCK" ('for unlawful carnal knowledge', 'fornication under
> consent of the king', etc. etc.) from the inventory of faux acronyms
> when I'm discussing the byways of etymythology just because of the
> obscenity involved. Or when you're talking about the dialect
> interference between British and U.S. English, should we avoid
> mentioning "pissed" ('angry' vs. 'drunk') along with "knocked up"?
> And should I eliminate discussing the loss of "cock" and "ass" from
> American English in favor of "rooster" and "donkey" as instance of
> taboo avoidance, following Bloomfield (1933)? Or maybe just not
> mention taboo avoidance as a factor in lexical change? Or would
> these all be acceptable to cite because invoking them would involve
> not *using* but *mentioning* obscene words?
>
> LH
>
>>
>>At 04:04 PM 2/21/2009, Scot LaFaive wrote:
>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>Poster: Scot LaFaive
>>>Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>>So I'm wondering why so many academics enjoy using obscene or>scatalogical
>>>terms in these "scholarly" postings. I'm wondering if those who>ply their
>>>rade in classrooms & libraries feel like they need to demonstrate>that they
>>>are really pretty edgy.
>>>
>>>Personally, I don't use vulgarity because I'm trying to look like a tough
>>>guy. It's just my nature to use those words when I feel they express what I
>>>want. I don't just throw them out (here anyway) willy-nilly; but I assumed
>>>from other postings that we are all mature enough to handle the occasional
>>>obscenity. I believe the so-called vulgar words hold a legitimate place in
>>>language usage; I don't feel that they shouldn't be shyed away from when
>>>they are exactly the word necessary for a given thought. I'm curious what
>>>others have to say about the usage of obscenities and registers concerning
>>>"adult" and "scholarly" conversation. Any other thoughts?
>>>
>>>Scot
>>>
>>>On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Bill Palmer wrote:
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Bill Palmer
>>>> Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Well, maybe these discussions are like hockey fights. They are not what
>>>> the
>>>> players came for, supposedly, but they tend to keep the game clean.
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Scot LaFaive"
>>>> To:
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 2:02 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>>> header -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Scot LaFaive
>>>>> Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>>So why not just ignore it?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think many of us have been trying to do just that for the past year or
>>>>> so
>>>>> (however long he's been on here), but it's difficult when 75% of what he
>>>>> says is complete bullshit. Anyway, you are right. From now on I am going
>>>>> to
>>>>> try to hold to my personal promise not to waste time responding to Tom's
>>>>> useless comments. If you find me breaking that promise, please feel free
>>>>> to
>>>>> chastise me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scot
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 6:28 AM, Randy Alexander
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Randy Alexander
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Scot LaFaive
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I will readily admit that Ron does speak openly, almost painfully so,
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> what displeases him, but any anger directed toward Tom isn't because
>>>> he
>>>>>> dare
>>>>>>> violate some traditionalist doctrine. It's because he continually says
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same thing without regard for what people more knowledgeable in the
>>>>>>> field
>>>>>>> than him are saying. It's like if I went on a biology forum with the
>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> I know of the science and proclaimed various ideas that experts in the
>>>>>> field
>>>>>>> knew to be false, but I didn't listen anyway and just kept on
>>>> trucking.
>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>> rather offensive after awhile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So why not just ignore it? If I see a post on some topic I'm not
>>>>>> really interested in, I just take a quick glance at it and then hit
>>>>>> the archive button. At least the subject matter is something related
>>>>>> to what the list deals with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No matter how much I think about it, I still can't see any benefit
>>>>>> that could possibly arise from insults. If someone insults me and I
>>>>>> insult them back harder, can I gain from this? Can we trace this back
>>>>>> to flyting?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Randy Alexander
>>>>>> Jilin City, China
>>>>>> My Manchu studies blog:
>>>>>> http://www.bjshengr.com/manchu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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