Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"

Sun Feb 22 04:46:13 UTC 2009

Being an American in the "American Dialect Society" I thought I might get an American English word I could hear in m-w.com.  I'm not sure how "pot" sounds in UK, but probably the "awe" vowel, which is ~au in truespel.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com

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> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:01:17 -0500
> From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Laurence Horn
> Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 3:42 AM +0000 2/22/09, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>What sound was that again? Sample word?
>>
>
> A low back rounded vowel, as described; lower and
> backer than [O] (open o). It appears canonically
> in the RP (or "BBC") pronunciation of words like
> "pot". I don't have it in my dialect, but (like
> many US English speakers) have the unrounded
> variety of the low back vowel, for which the IPA
> symbol is a script a. I'm not sure how these
> would be distinguished in truespel.
>
> LH
>
>>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>see truespel.com
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the
>>>mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Laurence Horn
>>> Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> At 4:03 PM -0500 2/21/09, Paul Johnston wrote:
>>>>Sorry about this--I'm trying to represent the low back rounded vowel
>>>>here.
>>>
>>> Ah, my bad. What I thought was a capital D was actually a
>>> steroid-infused upside-down script a (that last character should be
>>> viewed in a font like Comic Sans).
>>>
>>> LH
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Paul Johnston
>>>>On Feb 21, 2009, at 3:48 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>Poster: Laurence Horn
>>>>>Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>---------
>>>>>
>>>>>At 3:29 PM -0500 2/21/09, Paul Johnston wrote:
>>>>>>The dialects that have this are either non-rhotic now, or
>>>>>>historically were so. There's a merger of an earlier /wOnt/~/wDnt/ =
>>>>>>were not, with early /r/ dropping before alveolars, stemming from
>>>>>>some sort of Eastern English settlement, most probably, with the /
>>>>>>wont/ from will not, it seems to me. The distribution listed (New
>>>>>>England + E VA, E NC) is consistent with settlement from East Anglia
>>>>>>(North) and the Northeast Midlands (South), both areas of which have
>>>>>>this /r/ dropping, and something like /D/ or /^/ for this vowel.
>>>>>
>>>>>Can you remind me (and maybe us) of what /D/ is in the system you're
>>>>>assuming? In the version of ASCII IPA I use, it's the initial
>>>>>consonant of "this", which it clearly isn't in this context.
>>>>>
>>>>>LH
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Paul Johnston
>>>>>>On Feb 20, 2009, at 8:34 PM, Bill Palmer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>Poster: Bill Palmer
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>---------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The "won't" that is articulated in eastern NC in the sense I have
>>>>>>>described
>>>>>>>is clearly what most of us would interpret as the normal
>>>>>>>contraction of
>>>>>>>"will not". No "r" sound is discerned.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bill P.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Mark Mandel"
>>>>>>>To:
>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:14 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>>>>>>header -----------------------
>>>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>>Poster: Mark Mandel
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"
>>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>----------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Bill Palmer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well, I appreciate that explanation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So let me move on to a question that I think this list is
>>>>>>>>>supposed to
>>>>>>>>>address. If not, then just slam-dunk me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In North Carolina, where I live, and particularly in the eastern
>>>>>>>>>part,
>>>>>>>>>there
>>>>>>>>>is a tendency to use "won't" to mean "was not" or "were not".
>>>>>>>>>Ex: Q: "Who ate that last piece of pie?"
>>>>>>>>> A: "It won't me".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Does this practice exist anywhere else? I have lived in and
>>>>>>>>>travelled
>>>>>>>>>thru
>>>>>>>>>much of the South, and don't recall hearing it anywhere else.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bill Palmer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I can't reply knowledgeably, but let me assure you that in terms of
>>>>>>>>appropriateness your question IS a slam-dunk.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Is this the pronunciation I've seen written as "warn't" in the same
>>>>>>>>sort of context? "about 198,000" rgh ("raw Google hits") for
>>>>>>>>"warn't".
>>>>>>>>The first page or so shows a few ringers, but most of them look
>>>>>>>>real,
>>>>>>>>such as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>- it warn't always like this [blog title]
>>>>>>>>- What does 'there warn't much sand in my craw' mean?
>>>>>>>>- Day 140: "We said there warn't no home like a raft, after all.
>>>>>>>>Other places do seem so cramped up and smothery, but a raft don't.
>>>>>>>>You
>>>>>>>>feel mighty free and easy and comfortable on a raft."
>>>>>>>>- And when it come to character, warn't it Compeyson as had been to
>>>>>>>>the school, and warn't it his schoolfellows as was in this position
>>>>>>>>and in that...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Those last two are from Twain (Huckleberry Finn) and Dickens!
>>>>>>>>(_Great
>>>>>>>>Expectations_, in Google Book Search, http://tinyurl.com/d5qndc)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mark A. Mandel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>
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>>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
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>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
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>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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