18th century "was" vs. "had been"

[Joel S. Berson]

I apologize if there has been confusion as to what Revere actually
wrote.  And no, I don't think I've answered my own question.

I have quoted Revere as writing that he "got opposite where Mark was
hung in chains".  The letter was written (and first published) in
1798.  See Proceedings of the MHS, 1878 (Boston, 1879), p. 370 and
(for the quotation) 372 (on-line, full view, Google Books).

Today, if I were intending to say Mark's body was still hanging, I
would write "where Mark was hanging in chains."
If I were intending to say that it was the place where Mark's body
had hung, but was no longer there, I would write "where Mark had been
hung in chains", or perhaps "where Mark was hung in chains."

But I find "where Mark was hung in chains" somewhat ambiguous --
e.g., did it mean "got opposite where Mark was, hung in chains" (note
comma; there is no comma in Revere's letter)  -- and am wondering how
it would have been understood in 1798.

Joel

At 2/4/2010 12:26 PM, Gordon, Matthew J. wrote:
>In your original post you quoted Revere as writing "was hung"? So
>have you answered your own question?
>
>If he actually wrote "was hanging," then there's a further ambiguity
>since AFAIK the progressive passive wasn't (commonly) used then and
>the active progressive would have been used with passsive meaning.
>Thus, "X was hanging" could have meant "X was being hung/hanged."
>
>Matt Gordon
>
>On 2/4/10 9:37 AM, "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
>
>... But my
>question is about whether Revere actually saw the
>body still hanging in 1775, 20 years after Mark's
>execution, or was simply identifying the location
>when describing his ride.  Historians have
>interpreted Revere's sentence in both ways.  I am
>asking whether, in the 18th century, "was
>hanging" might have had a "past perfect" sense,
>where today we might say "had been hanging".
>
>If Revere had written "was hung", I would
>interpret that as the simple past -- Mark was no
>longer there.  But Revere didn't (and I don't
>know if at his time one could have written that).
>
>Joel
>
>....
> >
> >On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the
> > mail header -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > Subject:      18th century "was" vs. "had been"
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > When Paul Revere wrote about his ride to Lexington, that in
> > > Charleston he "got opposite where Mark was hung in chains", did that mean
> > > (a)  he "got opposite where Mark was still hung in chains"(that is,
> > > was still hanging); or
> > > (b)  he "got opposite where Mark had been hung in chains up to some
> > > previous time" (that is, had been hanging)?
> > >
> > > (Mark was one of the two slaves convicted of poisoning their master,
> > > John Codman, in 1755.)
> > >
> > > Joel
> > >
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> >
> >--
> >-Wilson
> >---
> >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"--a strange complaint to
> >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >-Mark Twain
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