18th century "was" vs. "had been"

[Jonathan Lighter]

Twenty years sounds like a god-awful long time to leave somebody hanging in
chains. Not that that proves anything, but I think the authorities could
have made their point in a lot less time.

JL

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: 18th century "was" vs. "had been"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I apologize if there has been confusion as to what Revere actually
> wrote.  And no, I don't think I've answered my own question.
>
> I have quoted Revere as writing that he "got opposite where Mark was
> hung in chains".  The letter was written (and first published) in
> 1798.  See Proceedings of the MHS, 1878 (Boston, 1879), p. 370 and
> (for the quotation) 372 (on-line, full view, Google Books).
>
> Today, if I were intending to say Mark's body was still hanging, I
> would write "where Mark was hanging in chains."
> If I were intending to say that it was the place where Mark's body
> had hung, but was no longer there, I would write "where Mark had been
> hung in chains", or perhaps "where Mark was hung in chains."
>
> But I find "where Mark was hung in chains" somewhat ambiguous --
> e.g., did it mean "got opposite where Mark was, hung in chains" (note
> comma; there is no comma in Revere's letter)  -- and am wondering how
> it would have been understood in 1798.
>
> Joel
>
> At 2/4/2010 12:26 PM, Gordon, Matthew J. wrote:
> >In your original post you quoted Revere as writing "was hung"? So
> >have you answered your own question?
> >
> >If he actually wrote "was hanging," then there's a further ambiguity
> >since AFAIK the progressive passive wasn't (commonly) used then and
> >the active progressive would have been used with passsive meaning.
> >Thus, "X was hanging" could have meant "X was being hung/hanged."
> >
> >Matt Gordon
> >
> >On 2/4/10 9:37 AM, "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
> >
> >... But my
> >question is about whether Revere actually saw the
> >body still hanging in 1775, 20 years after Mark's
> >execution, or was simply identifying the location
> >when describing his ride.  Historians have
> >interpreted Revere's sentence in both ways.  I am
> >asking whether, in the 18th century, "was
> >hanging" might have had a "past perfect" sense,
> >where today we might say "had been hanging".
> >
> >If Revere had written "was hung", I would
> >interpret that as the simple past -- Mark was no
> >longer there.  But Revere didn't (and I don't
> >know if at his time one could have written that).
> >
> >Joel
> >
> >....
> > >
> > >On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the
> > > mail header -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > > Subject:      18th century "was" vs. "had been"
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > When Paul Revere wrote about his ride to Lexington, that in
> > > > Charleston he "got opposite where Mark was hung in chains", did that
> mean
> > > > (a)  he "got opposite where Mark was still hung in chains"(that is,
> > > > was still hanging); or
> > > > (b)  he "got opposite where Mark had been hung in chains up to some
> > > > previous time" (that is, had been hanging)?
> > > >
> > > > (Mark was one of the two slaves convicted of poisoning their master,
> > > > John Codman, in 1755.)
> > > >
> > > > Joel
> > > >
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> > >
> > >--
> > >-Wilson
> > >---
> > >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"--a strange complaint to
> > >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > >-Mark Twain
> > >
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