shit! (coarse exclamation of annoyance or disgust)

[Paul Frank]

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Robin Hamilton
<robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote:

> ... although "shite" and "shit", while closely related, aren't strictly
> commutative. Â (As is also the case with the distinction between "ass" and
> "arse" -- thus, UK "a rat's arse," but no corresponding USA locution, "a
> rat's ass", if I have this right.)

If I'd had to guess, I would have said that "a rat's arse" came from
"a rat's ass." "I don't give a rat's ass" is certainly extremely
common in American English.

Paul

Paul Frank
Translator
German, French, Italian > English
paulfrank at post.harvard.edu
paul.frank at bfs.admin.ch



On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Robin Hamilton
<robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote:
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> Sender: Â  Â  Â  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Â  Â  Â  Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM>
> Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: shit! (coarse exclamation of annoyance or disgust)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ... although "shite" and "shit", while closely related, aren't strictly
> commutative. Â (As is also the case with the distinction between "ass" and
> "arse" -- thus, UK "a rat's arse," but no corresponding USA locution, "a
> rat's ass", if I have this right.)
>
> The OED under GOBSHITE n -- Sense 2: " A stupid, incompetent, or gullible
> person" -- gives only the spellings: "19- gobshite, 19- gobshyte", thus no
> gobshits.
>
> The extended derogatory sense of "shit/shite" (as in "an utter shit" -- a
> singularly worthless person) may (I stress, "may"), via "gobshite", extend
> as far back as the mid-sixteenth century.
>
> Thomas Harman, in _A Caveat for Common Cursitors_, records a remark in cant
> made by a Rogue to an Upright Man: "Gerry gan! Â The ruffian cly thee!",
> englished by Harman as, "A turd in thy mouth! Â the devil take thee!"
>
> This is picked up by the character Wasp in Ben Jonson's _Bartholomew Fair_,
> where in its englished form, it becomes his repeated catchphrase, "turd i'
> your teeth."
>
> (For further uses in English drama, see Robert William Dent, _Proverbial
> language in English drama exclusive of Shakespeare_, 1495-1616: (1984),
> "T607: Â A TURD in his (your) teeth":
>
> Â  Â  Â  Â http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oYDMndXNWlUC&pg=PA702&dq=turd+teeth&hl=en&ei=_s6DTKC9KI_HswbgoLDmCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=turd%20teeth&f=false
> Â )
>
> Perhaps in the course of time, a turd (gerry) in the teeth, or shit in the
> mouth (gan) evolves into the more familiar "gobshite".
>
> To which one is tempted to respond, in tones of incredulity, "No shit!"
>
> Robin
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jonathan Lighter" <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:02 PM
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: shit! (coarse exclamation of annoyance or disgust)
>
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>> Poster: Â  Â  Â  Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: shit! (coarse exclamation of annoyance or disgust)
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "Oh, shitte!" appears (in fancifully Elizabethan spelling) in Mark Twain's
>> "1601" (written ca1880).
>>
>> I'm too lazy to check, but I believe that's the earliest unequivocal ex.
>> in
>> my files.
>>
>> Garson's suggestion is very reasonable. Â Possibly more reasonable, because
>> it would have been a direct challenge to the umpire.
>>
>> Regarding a less frequent excremental idiom:
>>
>> *1799 Â *Old Bailey Proceedings* Â [
>> http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/images.jsp?doc=3D179909110059]: Â Now, you
>> sh----n son of a b-----, where is your ten pound duck now? Â 1938 Ezra
>> Pound
>> in Brita Lindberg-Seyersted, ed., *Pound/Ford: The Story of a Literary
>> Friendship * (N.Y.: New Directions, 1982) 159: It is a shitten outrage
>> that
>> Johnnie Adams=92 letters are out of print.
>>
>> In modern times, this is spelled "shittin'."
>>
>> JL
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>>
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