origin of dese dem dose in NYCE

[Jonathan Lighter]

I too was taught to say "Spuyten Duyvil" with /aI /, in NYC public
school in the 1950s.

I've never heard it pronounced any other way.

JL

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>Can you find any other evidence of Dutch or German influence outside of lexicon?
>
> And how could you be sure?
>
> JL
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Michael Newman
> <michael.newman at qc.cuny.edu> wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Michael Newman <michael.newman at QC.CUNY.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Michael Newman
>> Associate Professor of Linguistics
>> Queens College/CUNY
>> michael.newman at qc.cuny.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2012, at 6:01 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> OTOH, the non-Dutch theory suffers from concluding that, although
>>> Dutch and German were a dominant foreign language in NYC from the
>>> beginnings of New Amsterdam through the 19th Century up to the General
>>> Slocum disaster and WWI, they are thought to have no influence
>>> whatsoever.
>>> DanG
>>> who wonders what accent the German-born John Jacob Astor spoke...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Jonathan Lighter
>>> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> The "Dutch" theory and others suffer fatally from the double
>>>> assumption that there was just one determining factor (a particular
>>>> foreign language or earlier English dialect) and that a little
>>>> reflection and "common sense" will identify it.
>>>>
>>>> JL
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Ronald Butters <ronbutters at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster:       Ronald Butters <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
>>>>> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> This vowel is also heard in New Orleans, and among older Black speakers =
>>>>> in the South. Not too bloody likely that the Dutch had much to do with =
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:23 AM, James A. Landau wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a stereotype that people from Brooklyn pronounce /@r/ as /oi/ =
>>>>> or /ui/.
>>>>>> ("toidy-toid and toid avenue").
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Could this be, contrary to your statement above, a holdover from Dutc
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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