"payback"

Wed Feb 29 22:31:43 UTC 2012

At 2/29/2012 11:45 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >I still believe Google's metadata is faulty -- it
>gives a title for a 1923 issue of a journal that
>did not use that title in 1923.
>
>This is common in my experience. It is confusing but may not be an error.
>
>For example, _after a few years  of publication, _California Folklore
>Quarterly_ changed its name to _Western Folklore_.  The library catalogues
>I've seen lump both together under the most recent title.

The library catalogue I use uses "Continues" and
"Continued by" when names change.  Having an
inaccurate title for a particular period can lead
to the researcher not finding the issue he's looking for.

Joel

>JL
>On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: "payback"
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > For unknown reasons I have not yet received this message by Victor.
> > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >  > No, Joel. Most libraries carry the 1942-1946 volumes because of the war.
> >  > The journal had been published since 1898. Only Brandeis and UConn carry
> >  > the full pre-war range in the Northeast. I've checked every library that
> >  > comes up on WorldCat--all of them have only the war years. Google is
> >  > right, for a change.
> >  >
> >  > I am certain of the Hawaii bibliographic data being correct.
> >  >
> >  >    VS-)
> >
> > I have no problem with the Hawaii bibliographic
> > data.  It said (as reported by Victor)
> > >Local Notes: UHM: Detached from Asia, v.23, no.8, August 1923.
> >
> > That is (I assume) their short title for the same
> > journal both I and George cited:
> >
> > I --
> > >Harvard lists a periodical titled "Asia :
> > >journal of the American Asiatic Association"
> > >whose vol. 17 is 1917; that might make a vol. 23 be 1923.
> >
> > George --
> > >NYPL's catalog shows that it has vol. 23, 1923
> > >of "Asia: Journal of the American Asiatic Association"
> >
> > My problem is with the Google metadata.  It gives
> > a title of "Asia and the Americas, Volume
> > 23".  That was not the title for this journal in 1923.
> >
> > Victor wrote:
> > >Yes. It was the Journal of the American Asiatic
> > >Association until 1917, then changed its name. I
> > >believe the name was changed again in 1946.
> >
> > Harvard says that "Asia and the Americas"\was
> > published "[Vol. 42, no. 11] (Nov. 1942)-[v. 46,
> > no. 12] (Dec. 1946)" and "Continues: Asia (New
> > York, N.Y. : 1917) ISSN:0891-3536".  So the name
> > changed in 1942, and perhaps again in
> > 1947.  (Harvard does not have a "Continued by"
> > note, so perhaps it ceased in 1946.  [As ordered
> > by MacArthur?  :-) ]  Or perhaps the Harvard
> > bibliographers missed its next incarnation.  They
> > are not without error, as I have become notorious
> > for pointing out -- they know my name.)
> >
> > Victor wrote (see above):
> >  > The journal had been published since 1898.
> >
> > Under a different title, "Journal of the American
> > Asiatic Association", which "Began publication
> > with: July 1898 issue; ceased publication with: Jan. 1917 issue."
> >
> > Victor also wrote:
> >  > Only Brandeis and UConn carry the full pre-war
> > range in the Northeast. I've checked every library that
> >  > comes up on WorldCat--all of them have only the war years.
> >
> > If Victor looked only for the title "Asia and the
> > Americas", which WorldCat lists as 1942-1946, he
> > might not have found other libraries, those
> > listing the title as "Asia: Journal of the
> > American Asiatic Association".  But when I search
> > WorldCat for "Asia and the Americas", the 3rd
> > listing is "Asia : journal of the American
> > Asiatic Association. by American Asiatic
> > Association.", "Publisher: New York : Asia Pub.
> > Co., ©1917-[©1942]" -- that is, including the
> > year 1923.  Clicking on that brings up as the
> > first library "Harvard College Library";
> > following that will show that Tozzer holds 1923.
> >
> > Fortunately, I did not need to search the
> > additional 27 libraries in the Northeast (if that
> > means New England) that might also hold the 1923
> > issue.  But it's not only Victor's Brandeis and
> > UConn that claim to hold 1923 -- in addition to
> > Harvard, the MIT library also holds 1923.  And
> > there might be others -- I didn't check further.
> >
> > I still believe Google's metadata is faulty -- it
> > gives a title for a 1923 issue of a journal that
> > did not use that title in 1923.
> >
> > Joel
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > On 2/28/2012 9:33 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> >  >
> >  >> I suspect a problem with Google's
> >  >> metadata.  Harvard lists "Asia and the Americas"
> >  >> as published from 1942 to 1946.
> >  >>
> >  >> Rather, Harvard lists a periodical titled "Asia :
> >  >> journal of the American Asiatic Association"
> >  >> whose vol. 17 is 1917; that might make a vol. 23
> >  >> be 1923.  It holds vol. 23 at Biblioteca
> >  >> Berenson, Florence, and in the Tozzer Depository,
> >  >> in some location undisclosed by Harvard.  I don't
> >  >> propose to go to either location myself.
> >
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> >
>
>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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