which its = "whose"

[Herb Stahlke]

I think historically wh-relatives developed in learned discourse and among
educated people.  It's probably a generalization of indefinite relatives,
and they seem to develop twice in Old and Middle English.  They begin to
appear in the tenth c., perhaps as a calque on Latin qu- forms, but after
the Normans stamped out English as a literary medium, they started
reappearing again in ME in the 13th c. when writing in English begins to
flourish again.  The that-relative continued as an option throughout these
periods.  I would speculate that in the vernacular English of the medieval
unlettered and modern speakers with less than a high school education the
grammar of wh-relatives is sketchy and these unusual "which" constructions
are a form of hypercorrection.

Herb


On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
> Subject:      Re: which its = "whose"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> FWIW, I used to talk a lot to someone who used some sort of odd "which." I
> took it to be something he used to sound more intelligent. BB
>
> On Jun 14, 2014, at 4:52 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
>
> > I've been hearing it in TN since the '70s. I don't recall it from NYC,
> but
> > I may not have known the right people.
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: which its = "whose"
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> I've heard sentences like
> >>
> >> We were going to have a picnic Saturday, which it rained, so we stayed
> >> home=
> >> .
> >>
> >> I don't know what its regional distribution is, but most instances I've
> >> heard have come from NW Ohio.
> >>
> >> Herb
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >>> Subject:      Re: which its =3D "whose"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >> ------
> >>>
> >>> Ah, I see the OED's entry at 14b, citing the same source inter alia:
> >>>
> >>> Hence, in vulgar use, without any antecedent, as a mere connective or
> >>> introductory particle.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org