[Ads-l] pond

Sat Oct 13 17:49:15 UTC 2018

The "English Language & Usage" section at StackExchange was a webpage
with a discussion of the phrase "across the pond". Numerous citations
in the 1800s and some in the 1700s are listed. Variants such as
"across the big pond" and "across the great pond" and "over the
Herring Pond" are mentioned.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30295/why-do-we-use-the-phrase-across-the-pond

I've also come across the expression "across the pond" in the past.
I've even encountered an extreme variant "across the puddle". Here is
an instance using "great puddle" for the Atlantic Ocean in 1878.

Date: November 1878
Periodical: The Bates Student: A Monthly Periodical
Volume 6, Number 9
Published by the Class of '79, Bates College
Printed at the Journal Office, Lewiston, Maine
Article: Exchanges
Quote Page 234

https://books.google.com/books?id=SSIEAAAAYAAJ&q=%22great+puddle%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
Across the "great puddle" comes to our table the Oxford and Cambridge
Undergraduates Journal, a heavy, awkward, uncut sheet, printed in very
fine type. About two-thirds of it is devoted to the publication of
sermons preached by members of the College Faculty. Its tone is much
heavier than that of American College Journals.
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 1:49 PM Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 11 Oct 2018, at 10:47, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> >>  this term is not well known in the US
> >
> > Disagree, though its currency is mostly limited to the geographically
> > aware.
> >
>
> I amend to “not generally known” in the US. BB
>
> > HDAS files have at least one ex. referring to the Pacific.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 1:31 PM Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com <mailto:mail.barretts at gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>> On 11 Oct 2018, at 10:29, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU <mailto:laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Oct 11, 2018, at 1:14 PM, Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM <mailto:mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM>
> >> <mailto:mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM <mailto:mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 11 Oct 2018, at 10:06, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU <mailto:laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 11, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The article on “nimrod” on World Wide Words (
> >> http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-nim1.htm <
> >> http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-nim1.htm>) cited in today’s nimrod
> >> thread starts off with:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ——
> >>>>>> From Barbara Murray, Wisconsin: Oxford Dictionaries online defines
> >> nimrod in UK English as a “skilful hunter” and, across the pond where I
> >> reside, as an “inept person”.
> >>>>>> ——
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Wiktionary (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pond <
> >> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pond>): (colloquial) The Atlantic Ocean.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mac Dictionary: (humorous) the Atlantic Ocean.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The English OLD does not have “Atlantic Ocean” in its “pond” entry (
> >> https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pond <
> >> https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pond>) but does have
> >> “transpontine” (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/transpontine
> >> <https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/transpontine>).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Merriam-Webster seems to have a relevant usage but without a
> >> corresponding definition (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pond
> >> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pond>): They moved here from
> >> across the pond.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Particularly given that this term is not well known in the US, this
> >> definition is important. It is probably not too difficult to find citations
> >> that are neither colloquial nor humorous (perhaps the citations below).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From the ADS archives:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1997
> >>>>>> Barry Popik has an undated citation (
> >> http://www.americandialect.org/americandialectarchives/mar97.txt <
> >> http://www.americandialect.org/americandialectarchives/mar97.txt>)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> March 2001
> >>>>>> Mark Mandel discusses transpontine and the Pond (
> >> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2001-March/014045.html <
> >> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2001-March/014045.html>)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> August 2001
> >>>>>> Joel Berson states Herring Pond for Atlantic Ocean is found in 1686 (
> >> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2011-August/111742.html <
> >> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2011-August/111742.html>)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2003
> >>>>>> Dennis Preston uses the term (
> >> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2003-October/034418.html
> >> <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2003-October/034418.html
> >>> )
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you’re doing a complete search of the archives, you’ll probably
> >> encounter my “cispondian" (and probably “transpondian”, although I suspect
> >> others were there first with the latter term at least).
> >>>>
> >>>> I think I searched on “pond” “Atlantic” in Ben Zimmer’s (?) Google
> >> Search page (
> >> https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015166654881017481565:tinnmx85pdy <https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015166654881017481565:tinnmx85pdy> <
> >> https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015166654881017481565:tinnmx85pdy <https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015166654881017481565:tinnmx85pdy>> <
> >> https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015166654881017481565:tinnmx85pdy <
> >> https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015166654881017481565:tinnmx85pdy>>) and
> >> cited each email that came up. MM’s citation includes cispontine and
> >> cispondian. BB
> >>>> ——————————————————————————————
> >>>
> >>> Aha.  Well, I have used “cispondian” in a few posts over the years (June
> >> 13, 2014 for “pants” vs. “trousers"; Aug. 31, 2016 for “different to"; May
> >> 12, 2018 for “one off”), but all clearly post-Mark’d.  My own use was a
> >> spinoff of “cisgender”, which hadn’t even begun to make a social dent by
> >> March 2001 (OED has just one 20th century cite for it, then accelerating
> >> over the past decade), so kudos to MM, who must have been up on the
> >> Caesarian section of his lexicon--cis-Alpine vs. trans-Alpine Gaul and
> >> all.
> >>>
> >>> LH
> >>
> >> lmao
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org <http://www.americandialect.org/>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org <http://www.americandialect.org/>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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