[Ads-l] ~wool and ~chool

[Mark Mandel]

If you would like a word of advice, I would suggest not trying to argue
with Mr. Zurinskas. His email address is a clue to his opinions. Truespel
is the name of his “pronunciation guide spelling system". This is from his
homepage, https://www.truespel.com/:

Truespel Phonetics is the World’s first “pronunciation guide spelling
system” based on U.S. English, the world’s most important language.
Phonetics isn’t difficult anymore.

Truespel is designed for the first time to integrate literacy tools, such
as dictionary pronunciation guides, translation guides, initial reading
guides, and phonetic analysis tools by using one, simple, easy-to-use
phonetic spelling. The sounds for the truespel phonetic model are the
voiced pronunciations in “talking” American English dictionaries, like
m-w.com.

With truespel, hearing the spoken word allows one to spell it phonetically
merely by using the 40 phonemes of US English with stress and apostrophe
rules. It is truly the simplest and only such phonetic spelling system
there is today that is pronunciation guide quality.
Mark A. Mandel


On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 1:51 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> > On Jul 18, 2020, at 11:10 AM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > The problem with English is that the spoken word does not agree with the
> spelling of it, and thus violates the alphabetic principle that letters
> stand for sounds.
>
> You say that (the “thus” part) as if it’s a bad thing. What does the
> alphabetic principle do about phonological variation? I’ve heard
> “CHOOL-dren” and I’ve (mostly) heard “CHIL-dren”. I’ve also heard something
> essentially in between—the vowel space is continuous, after all.  Should we
> spell the plural of “child” differently depending on who’s speaking? When
> you say “Here is *my* vocalizing…” below, I believe you.  It’s not,
> however, my vocalizing.
>
> And what do we do if we’re writing the word in a context in which we’re
> not representing any particular speaker—spell it both ways, just in case?
>
> LH
>
> >  Here is my vocalizing of ~chooldrin which according to its spelling
> should be ~children.  I think the reason for saying ~chool (as in "wool')
> is that it's a little easier than saying ~chil .
> https://www.speakpipe.com/voice-recorder/msg/1tdziltl77v660rv
> > [http://www.speakpipe.com/static/img/speakpipe-logo.png]<
> https://www.speakpipe.com/voice-recorder/msg/1tdziltl77v660rv>
> > SpeakPipe - receive voice messages from your audience directly on your
> website. <https://www.speakpipe.com/voice-recorder/msg/1tdziltl77v660rv>
> > SpeakPipe allows your customers, podcast listeners, blog readers and
> fans to send you voice messages (voicemail) right from a browser without
> any phone calls.
> > www.speakpipe.com
> > Tom Zurinskas,  Originally from SW Conn 20 yrs,  college NE Tenn 3,
> work SE NJ  33,  resides SE Florida 18...  truespel.com
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Geoffrey Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU>
> > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:01 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: ~wool and ~chool
> >
> > When I taught basic phonology (which I taught from roughly 1975 to 2017)
> > I usually started with the following set of words:
> >
> > sit
> > Sid
> > hint
> > pinned
> > pill
> >
> > I then pointed out that each "i" sound was different:
> >
> > sit: short
> > Sid: long
> > hint: nasalized, short
> > pinned: nasalized, long
> > pill: retracted - not as high, or as front
> >
> > I then pointed out that these differences didn’t "count", because these
> > Sounds were allophones of the same phoneme. The retraction is
> > quite widespread in American English before the dark l in syllable-final
> > position. I listened to the woman Tom was referencing, and the first
> > instance is a fairly normal "i", the second one is quite retracted, but
> > not near the modified "short-u" in "wool".
> >
> > Not going to measure the formants, but that is my informal assessment.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > [PS Attempting to fool the software at UGA into not messing up
> > the formatting]
> >
> > Geoffrey S. Nathan
> > WSU Information Privacy Officer (Retired)
> > Emeritus Professor, Linguistics Program
> > http://blogs.wayne.edu/proftech/
> > geoffnathan at wayne.edu
> >
> > From: Tom Zurinskas<mailto:truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 3:23 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: ~wool and ~chool
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: ~wool and ~chool
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I'd say the lady speaking here is saying ~chooldrin.
> https://www.youtube.=
> > com/watch?v=3Dz_1Zv_ECy0g  around 20 seconds and 30 s inti video.  I
> heard =
> > Lawrence O'Donnel say ~chooldrin on yesterday's show, and he's from
> Mass.  =
> > I wool never ceased to be amazed.  ~~fer sher~~
> >
> > Tom Zurinskas,  Originally from SW Conn 20 yrs,  college NE Tenn 3,
> work S=
> > E NJ  33,  resides SE Florida 18...  truespel.com
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> MULLIN=
> > S, WILLIAM D (Bill) CIV USARMY CCDC AVMC (USA)
> <0000099bab68be9a-dmarc-requ=
> > est at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 7:00 PM
> ...
> >> The word "children" is being pronounced ~choolddin for the past few
> years=
> > (where ~chool
> >> rhymes with "wool").
> >
> > Not by me.
> > Or by anyone I've ever spoken with.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>

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