[Ads-l] Antedating "mammoth" (big) - 1801 (was "big cheese" 1815)

Thu Jun 1 18:33:58 UTC 2023

Jefferson was particularly interested in mammoth fossils, and one of his hopes for the Lewis & Clark expedition was that they would find living mammoths in the American west. Jefferson was keen on disproving a notion, current in Europe at the time, that American animals were simply diminutive versions of European ones.

-----Original Message-----
From: "ADSGarson O'Toole" <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 2:27pm
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Antedating "mammoth" (big) - 1801 (was "big cheese" 1815)

Ben Zimmer initiated an interesting thread about the adjective mammoth
back in January 2015.
https://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2015-January/135763.html

President Thomas Jefferson was called a "Mammoth of Democracy" and
“(the) Mammoth”.
The phrases "Mammoth Pye", "Mammoth Apple Pye", "Mammoth appetite"
were mentioned on the thread. Ben Zimmer, Geoffrey Steven Nathan, and
I participated in the thread, but I do not remember it.

Garson

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 2:04 PM ADSGarson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The OED has a fun citation from Thomas Jefferson for the adjective
> form: "Mammoth-veal" dated October 1801. (After Mammoth Ox.) OED also
> has "Mammoth bread" and "Mammoth Cheese". Mammoth was capitalized.
>
> [Begin OED excerpt]
> mammoth, n. and adj.
> B. adj. Originally U.S.
> Comparable to the mammoth in size; huge, gigantic.
> The reference in quot. 1803 is to a large cheese presented to Jefferson.
>
> 1801 T. Jefferson Let. 22 Oct. in Papers (2008) XXXV. 479 I
> recieved [sic]..a present of a quarter of a Mammoth-veal which at 115.
> days old weighed 438. lb.
> 1802 O. Oldschool in Port Folio 30 Jan. 31/3 A baker in this city
> offers Mammoth bread for sale.
> 1803 J. Davis Trav. U.S.A. ix. 329 Its extraordinary dimensions
> induced some wicked wag of a federalist to call it the Mammoth Cheese.
> [End OED excerpt]
>
> James Eric Lawson wrote:
> > Good early finding, Garson. That researcher's clippings
> > collection suggests an interest in large prehistoric, legendary
> > and fictional creatures (viz clippings about Alley Oop,
> > Godzilla, dinosaurs, etc.) rather than an interest in the
> > particular adjective.
>
> Good point, James. Exploring the adjective was not the primary concern
> of the researcher. He did use the label "First Mammoth adjective" for
> the clipping, so apparently the researcher recognized what he found.
>
> Garson
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 1:50 PM James Eric Lawson <jel at nventure.com> wrote:
> >
> > Good early finding, Garson. That researcher's clippings collection
> > suggests an interest in large prehistoric, legendary and fictional
> > creatures (viz clippings about Alley Oop, Godzilla, dinosaurs, etc.)
> > rather than an interest in the particular adjective.
> >
> > On 6/1/23 10:38, ADSGarson O'Toole wrote:
> > > Great work, Peter. Another researcher clipped the same text from a
> > > newspaper published a bit earlier. Thus, investigators are interested
> > > in this adjective.
> > >
> > > Date: May 11, 1801
> > > Newspaper: Hartford Courant
> > > Newspaper Location: Hartford, Connecticut
> > > Quote Page 3
> > >
> > > https://www.newspapers.com/article/hartford-courant-first-mammoth-adjective/29042813/
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > Trenton, April 28.
> > > On Thursday last was brought to this place the famous MAMMOTH OX, bred
> > > by John Humphries of Hopewell, in this county.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Garson
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 1:12 PM Peter Reitan <pjreitan at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> “Mammoth,” as an adjective referring to something big.
> > >>
> > >> A few months earlier than my last post. Not related to a big cheese.
> > >>
> > >> [Begin excerpt]
> > >> New Jersey. Trenton, April 28. On Thursday last was brought to this place the famous MAMMOTH OX, bred by John Humphries of Hopewell, in this county.
> > >> [End excerpt]
> > >>
> > >> Green Mountain Patriot (Peacham, Vermont), May 28, 1801, page 3.
> > >>
> > >> I was a bit disappointed to find it earlier than the “mammoth cheese” because it seemed to be a more interesting story if the adjective sense of “mammoth” had originated in reference to a “big cheese.”
> > >>
> > >> Mammoths were in the news at the time, because Peale’s museum in Philadelphia had just assembled and displayed a full mammoth skeleton for the first time anywhere.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > --
> > James Eric Lawson
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org