[Ads-l] Karen out, Jessica in

Fri Feb 6 20:26:05 UTC 2026

I also thought it was a strange though, so I went to COCA and searched

though the * HAVE changed

28 hits, with 26 unique nouns — lots of different things are represented, from language and fundamentals to plot and leaders.
Only one token did not meet the structural requirements, using "it's almost as though the company has changed" with no indication of something else remaining the same.
12 hits with 'even though'

The clause indicating no change is marked with
6 tokens of 'same'
6 tokens of 'remain' (both those counts include 3 tokens of 'remain the same')
5 tokens of 'still'
2 tokens of 'continue'
1 token each of 'indistinguishable', 'very' ("in this very room"), 'not' (with 'changed' elided),

So the construction looks something like this:
(even) though NP1 HAVE changed, NP2 remain the same
    with NP1 and NP2 related in some pragmatic frame

A typical example is " Though the leaders have changed repeatedly, the results have remained the same. "

The adversative 'though' paired with 'change' introduces a binary implicature to the effect that some related thing has or does not change.  The order of clauses does not affect the implicature; 8 tokens have the 'remain' clause first, like
"He’d  had countless  identical  meals  at  this very  table  as  a  boy,  and  it  was mockery  —
the props remaining exactly the same though the plot had changed so utterly."

5 tokens with no direct lexical marking of "remain the same." Lexical realization of the implicature through 'stll', 'remain', or the like is not required, so in a sentence like
"It felt very natural, even though the technology has changed", we are to understand that the speaker perceives enough similarities to feel "natural" despite the changes.
Another example: "Even though the world has changed, we can't have unisex bathrooms in middle school."

In Jon's example, "Though the name has changed, the way she expresses her entitlement has evolved...." I think the writer has leveraged the implicature in a particularly obscure way. Though NAME changed, ENTITLEMENT has not changed, and EXPRESSION of entitlement has also changed.

Clai Rice

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Subject: Re: Karen out, Jessica in

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Huh, interesting. For me, it still counts as a contrast being introduced
by /though/, because one is the name, and the other is the
entitlement—therefore, it's a contrast in the sense that it's talking
about two /different things/ that are in some particular way related.

Now i'm curious what the distribution is of what counts as a contrast in
this particular sort of thing.

David

On 2/5/2026 8:00 PM, Jesse Sheidlower wrote:
> I'm with Jon here; this immediately hit me as being off.
>
> _though_ should introduce some kind of contrast: "Though X has changed, Y is the same." Here, the name has changed, "but" the way she acts has...also changed.
>
> The article is arguing that Karens and Jessicas are similar; but this sentence goes in a different direction.
>
> Jesse Sheidlower
>
> On Wed, Feb 04, 2026 at 08:29:10PM -0900, David Bowie wrote:
>> Okay, I'll bite: What's weird about the use of 'though' here? It feels
>> bog-standard normal to me.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> On 2/4/2026 8:00 PM, ADS-L automatic digest system wrote:
>>> Date:    Wed, 4 Feb 2026 09:22:50 -0500
>>> From:    Jonathan Lighter<wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject: Karen out, Jessica in
>>>
>>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yahoo.com%2Fcreators%2Flifestyle%2Fstory%2Fgen-z-says-karen-is-out--and-a-new-name-for-rude-entitled-women-is-going-viral-152958311.html&data=05%7C02%7Ccharles.rice%40LOUISIANA.EDU%7C1325c6e390c34c589f4b08de6547348e%7C13b3b0cecd7549a4bfea0a03b01ff1ab%7C1%7C0%7C639059553839431670%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C80000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lbJqQo4FhvIN5yFSCgwFOWiTefVnrIc98Ql3JK2zGKk%3D&reserved=0<https://www.yahoo.com/creators/lifestyle/story/gen-z-says-karen-is-out--and-a-new-name-for-rude-entitled-women-is-going-viral-152958311.html>
>>>    :
>>>
>>> While the stereotype of the “Karen” is fading, the behaviour it represents
>>> is still very much alive, just under a new name: “Jessica.” Though the name
>>> has changed, the way she expresses her entitlement has evolved....
>>>
>>> The “Jessica” persona is much quieter and operates mainly online. Instead
>>> of causing a ruckus in a store, she prefers to address her grievances from
>>> behind a computer screen, where she has more control.
>>>
>>> (Note weird use of "though.")
>>>
>>> J.
>>> -- "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."

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