The Tagalog of Nueva Ecija

[Cena, Resty]

I grew up in Nueva Ecija, but I don't quite remember the Lord's Prayer
recited this way. But then I seldom went to church and when I did I didn't
do much praying. Fortunately I learned Tagalog at home and on the streets
(not at school and church, where indigenous communal properties sometimes
get presented in inauthentic ways), so my ANGs are intact and in the right
places. So I'd view the ANG-less sentences:

Sundi'y loob Mo ("Follow your wish")
Mapasaami'y kaharian Mo ("Your kingdom may come to us")

as artifacts of a translation done hundreds of years ago. This is not to say
that these sentences do not deserve scrutiny -- in the light of the tenuous
position of the notion of subject in Tagalog syntax. If Tagalogs spoke with
ANG to mark subjects/topics at the time of translation (e.g., Sundin ANG
loob Mo, Mapasaamin ANG kaharian Mo), as I have no doubt was the case,
stylization by replacing ANG with AY is a perversely radical idea. On the
other hand, if these sentences reflected the syntax then, then we have here
a construction unmarked for subject/topic that now has gained subject/topic
marking.

Paz's statement

	>>Predication by parataxis is common enough
	>>in Tagalog and other Philippine languages and the use of ANG is
not a
	>>prerequisite for sentence formation.

is correct, but at the same time misses the relevance of these sentences.
True, there are a number of ang-less constructions in Tagalog (e.g., Pasko
na "It's Christmas time", Ayaw ni Ben ng pansit "Ben does not like noodle"),
but everyone of them (that I know of) departs from the structure of a simple
clause with a focus-inflected verb from.

Except for these sentences in the Lord's Prayer.

RestyCena

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Paz B. Naylor [SMTP:pnaylor at umich.edu]
> Sent:	Tuesday, July 17, 2001 11:34 PM
> To:	 AUSTRONESIAN LANGUAGES AND LINGUISTICS
> Cc:	Reid, Lawrence
> Subject:	Re: The Tagalog of Nueva Ecija
>
> My father's family were from Cavite and I remember hearing "asa" and
> "alan"
> instead of nasa and ngalan/pangalan.  It may have also been used in old
> Manila Tagalog - but I can't be sure if my memory of its use in Manila may
> be due to the Cavite dialect - or the Nueva Ecija dialect where the
> Velardes
> (my mother's family) were originally from (Santa Rosa, to be exact).  From
> what I remember reading abouit it, these may actually be older forms.
> Lawrie, would you enlighten us?
>
> On the other hand, "Mapasaami'y kaharian Mo"  and "Sundi'y loob Mo..." -
> this is not a matter of substituting AY for ANG.  It is a matter of a
> different construction; i.e., "Kaharian mo mapasaamin > mapasaami(n) (a)y
> kaharian mo.  This type of construction is often used in literary text.
> This
> is not the more commonly used construction like "Mapasaamin ang kaharian
> mo
> > Ang kaharian mo'y mapasaamin." Predication by parataxis is common enough
> in Tagalog and other Philippine languages and the use of ANG is not a
> prerequisite for sentence formation.
>
> For sure, this highlights the urgent need for dialect study.  Hope there
> will be some out there who'll take up the challenge.     Paz
>
> You are right, this is not the same as the 'y of Cebuano.  I don't know
> Pangasinan but what we are looking at is not a matter of external
> influences
> but of different options within Tagalog itself.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Sundita" <csundita at yahoo.com>
> To: " AUSTRONESIAN LANGUAGES AND LINGUISTICS" <AN-LANG at anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 3:38 PM
> Subject: The Tagalog of Nueva Ecija
>
>
> > Hello...
> >
> > Since we're on the subject of Tagalog.  Has anyone here done any studies
> on the
> > Tagalog spoken in the province of Nueva Ecija?  A couple weeks ago,
> someone
> > sent a friend of mine a portion of the Lord's Prayer which reads:
> >
> > > Ama naming asa langit: Sambahi'y alan Mo; Mapasaami'y kaharian Mo;
> Sundi'y
> > > loob Mo rine sa lupa gaya nang sa langit!
> >
> > One thing you'll see is the lack of ANG, which seems to be replaced by
> 'Y.
> At
> > first, it appears to be similar to the Y used in Cebuano, but that seems
> > unlikely.  Perhaps it's from Panggalatok/Pangasinan?
> >
> > --Chris
> >
> >
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