Arabic-L:PEDA:Limiting jobs to native speakers

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Mon 28 Jan 2008
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Limiting jobs to native speakers
2) Subject:Limiting jobs to native speakers and Orange Books
3) Subject:Limiting jobs to native speakers and Orange Books

-------------------------Messages-----------------------------------
1)
Date: 28 Jan 2008
From:"abdel khila" <akhila at hotmail.com>
Subject:Limiting jobs to native speakers

Subject:Limiting jobs to native speakers
This issue of native speakers is not unique to Arabic. I am a native  
speaker of Moroccan Arabic, I also speak other languages (French,  
Spanish, Arabic, etc). I currently teach French and although I am not  
a native speaker contrary to what some of my colleague think, I do  
speak it fluently. I am certified in ESL. Now the issue here is  
whether that native speaker is qualified to teach period. Just because  
you are a native English speaker, it does not mean you can teach  
English. I have a masters degree in Teaching Foreign languages in  
addition to a certification to teach ESL, yet some find it odd that I  
could teach English in the U.S where there are many native speakers!  
Even though I share a lot in common with any potential ESL students I  
might teach...I have experience learning English as a FL, I am  
qualified and versed in FL methodology and approaches, and I am what  
we call in the profession a sympathetic listener (some native speakers  
tend to take things for granted which leads to a lack of  
comprehensible input for their students). Native speakers of any  
language bring a lot to the table as long as they are qualified to  
teach and as long as they would have followed a training/degree  
program in FL education. In the public schools where I teach, a  
certification is a requirement. To be certified, you would have had to  
complete a degree program in addition to taking the proficiency and  
written tests. Certain universities require the candidate to take the  
ACTFL (American Council of Teachers of Foreign Language) OPI (Oral  
proficiency Test) and the WPT (Written Proficiency Test). Both tests  
are rigorous and test the candidate ability to both write and speak at  
different levels, the highest being Superior. The OPI for example is a  
45 minute interview via the phone where the candidate is pushed to his/ 
her limits through a series of questions in the context of what might  
seem as an informal conversation with a person on the other line you  
have never met who is rating and recording every single utterance. I  
took the OPI and WPT for both Arabic and French and I could testify  
that it was a stressful experience even for someone who speaks, reads  
and write both languages fluently. Which leads me to the issue of some  
non-native speakers, I must premise by saying that I had the pleasure  
of working and meeting some wonderful non-native French and Spanish  
speakers, however, it saddens me to say that there are people in the  
profession teaching either French or Spanish who have no business  
doing it. The end result is a poor quality of instruction, students  
who can not speak the language after years and years of instruction,  
teachers who resolve to Speaking English in a foreign language class  
sometimes 80% of the time!!! (How can you learn a language like that?)  
and a slew of other consequences among which the dissatisfaction of  
the community with the FL programs in their neighborhood schools.  
There always this sense that FL in this country are relegated to a sub- 
standard role. I am not saying that the poor quality of instructors is  
the only reason for that, but in programs and districts where hiring  
quality instructors is a priority (there are not many unfortunately) ,  
FL is a big part of the educational system ( Fairfax County, Virginia  
with its immersion schools comes to mind). I think some university  
programs and some states dropped the ball by lowering their standards  
by allowing candidates to get certified even if their ACTFL scores are  
Advanced-low or Intermediate-Hig or by  still requiring the Praxis  
test ( one of the stupidest tests ever created for FL) to be good  
enough. How can you teach a language to a high school student when  
your proficiency    score is Intermediate-high and the student’s score  
is Intermediate- mid?( yes some school have proficiency test for their  
students that follow the ACTFL guidelines).

On the other hand, one issue with native speakers or in this case  
Arabic native speakers if we can call them that is that most of them  
are oblivious to what it takes to teach a FL language. They look at it  
from their point of view and through their own experiences when they  
were learning it as kids in their respective native countries, they  
bring their cultural luggage and own learning background and try to   
implement it or make it as their road map of teaching in a completely  
different culture and different set of  circumstances. They do not  
look at the learning experience form the point of view of the student  
who may have never heard Arabic, but from their own. They end up  
teaching the alphabet for example as they would have learned  
themselves 20 or 30 years ago back home where the teacher centered  
class is the norm. They don’t realize that something as common for  
them as Ahmed is incomprehensible to students.  The proof here is the  
slew of ridiculously written books for the learning of Arabic where  
grammar and grammar and grammar is driving the instruction, nothing is  
taught in context and rote memorization is the key to success or is it?
Someone mention rules and that native speakers don’t know the rules. I  
wish it was as simple as that. Rules you can read about in a book and  
just follow the book. The problem with some native speakers is that  
they follow too many rules. Try teaching a foreign language to a  
middle schooler and talk incessantly about rules
your school year would be a long one.

Abdelkader Khila

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2)
Date: 28 Jan 2008
From:Jonathan Lange <jonathanlange at yahoo.com>
Subject:Limiting jobs to native speakers and Orange Books

Hi there, just to put my two cents in on a few
subjects running around the list:

First, does anyone doubt that a foreign speaker can be
an excellent teacher of Arabic (or any other language,
for that matter)?  I'm a plain, old, raised-here
American and at university my Arabic teacher for the
first two years was Chinese (I believe he is on this
list - and bravo professor! :) ).  I had a fabulous
learning experience.  Why?  Quite possibly becasue the
professor knew very well himself what the difficulties
of learning Arabic as a foreigner were.  And there's
the point - if you had to go through it, you can
better explain it.

Second concern:

What ever happenned to the good old Orange Book(s)?
Everyone is listing recommended Arabic resources for
this and that, but this is still the only resource
that gives you a straight-forward, no-run-around
grammar of Arabic.  I know that when I was in CASA
there was a big dispute over whether the Orange Book
people or the Al-Kitab people were better.  Well, the
answwer was that the OB folks knew their grammar
inside and out, and the AK people spoke better, but
both were lacking what the other had.  So...when are
Arabic professors (you know who you are :) ) going to
get together and make a happy medium between the two?
I would also suggest a decent workbook, with fun
exercises and cultural references (like I learned
French) to go along with this.  I know Al-Kitab takes
a shot at that, but some fine-tuning is in order.

Anyway, just my two cents on both the
foreigner-as-teacher and textbook issues.

-Jonathan Lange

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3)
Date: 28 Jan 2008
From:Moulay Ali Bouanani" <bouanani.idrissi at gmail.com>
Subject:Limiting jobs to native speakers and Orange Books

In the best of worlds, yes. However, when it comes to teaching English  
in
this country and others. It is tacitly agreed upon to be a native  
speaker if
one is applying for a position in an English department. I have had to
experience discrimination (never overtly) in securing a job compatible  
with
my training as a teacher/professor of English here in the US. I suspect
English hiring committees in many institutions of simply discarding
applications just by looking at the names of applicants and not paying
attention to their credentials. The only position I got teaching  
English in
the US was offered to me because (according to the chair of that  
particular
department) they had more than enough of a particular ethnic group at  
that
school!

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