French-Chinook list

[Mike Cleven]

Ross Clark (FOA DALSL) wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike Cleven [mailto:ironmtn at BIGFOOT.COM]
>>Sent: Sunday, 19 May 2002 5:46 a.m.
>>To: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>>Subject: Re: French-Chinook list
>>
>>
>>
>>On the subject of guns I've begun to wonder about the usual assignment
>>of kalapeen/carabine to French origin.  Part of the reason is I was
>>talking to some of the young Russian pizza delivery guys who
>>hang out at
>>my regular morning Starbucks yesterday, and sure enough "karabin" is a
>>Russian word; the other part of the reason is that Russian rifles were
>>already in evidence in the BC Interior at the time of Simon Fraser's
>>trip down the river that came to bear his name, as well as of course
>>along the coast.  The Boston prononciation/parallel word here is
>>"carbine" - I'm not sure about Kingchauch; point is the French (and
>>French goods) weren't involved in the coastal trade (which was how the
>>BC Interior got their rifles; from trade with the coast).  Just a
>>speculation overall, but we automatically assign this word to French
>>without considering the possible Russian option.  Of course "carabine"
>>probably came to Russian _from_ French, but that's a slightly
>>different
>>story.  Anyone have any idea as to which area/year it first
>>appeared in?
>
>
> /karabín/ appears in Russian from the mid-17th century -- immediate source
> may be either French or German. (Source: Vasmer, Etymological Dictionary)

Thanks; I was actually meaning which area/year of the Jargon's history
it appeared in; from the Nootka Sound fur trade era, from Astoria/Ft
Vancouver, from later?  Fraser didn't make much in the way of linguistic
notes on his trip down "his" river so the word that the Lillooets
("Askettih") for their rifles isn't known; if it _were_ kalapeen or
something like that it would definitely point at Russian origin for the
word, IMO.  I'm not sure if the fur companies traded guns in New
Caledonia before that or not; I don't think so; but again you'd hope if
there were guns among natives up that way the company people might have
written something down.




--
Mike Cleven
http://www.cayoosh.net (Bridge River Lillooet history)
http://www.hiyu.net (Chinook Jargon phrasebook/history)