French-Chinook list

[Ross Clark (FOA DALSL)]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Cleven [mailto:ironmtn at BIGFOOT.COM]
> Sent: Monday, 20 May 2002 7:59 a.m.
> To: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: French-Chinook list
> 
> 
> Ross Clark (FOA DALSL) wrote:
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Mike Cleven [mailto:ironmtn at BIGFOOT.COM]
> >>Sent: Sunday, 19 May 2002 5:46 a.m.
> >>To: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> >>Subject: Re: French-Chinook list
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On the subject of guns I've begun to wonder about the usual 
> assignment
> >>of kalapeen/carabine to French origin.  Part of the reason is I was
> >>talking to some of the young Russian pizza delivery guys who
> >>hang out at
> >>my regular morning Starbucks yesterday, and sure enough 
> "karabin" is a
> >>Russian word; the other part of the reason is that Russian 
> rifles were
> >>already in evidence in the BC Interior at the time of Simon Fraser's
> >>trip down the river that came to bear his name, as well as of course
> >>along the coast.  The Boston prononciation/parallel word here is
> >>"carbine" - I'm not sure about Kingchauch; point is the French (and
> >>French goods) weren't involved in the coastal trade (which 
> was how the
> >>BC Interior got their rifles; from trade with the coast).  Just a
> >>speculation overall, but we automatically assign this word to French
> >>without considering the possible Russian option.  Of course 
> "carabine"
> >>probably came to Russian _from_ French, but that's a slightly
> >>different
> >>story.  Anyone have any idea as to which area/year it first
> >>appeared in?
> >
> >
> > /karabín/ appears in Russian from the mid-17th century -- 
> immediate source
> > may be either French or German. (Source: Vasmer, 
> Etymological Dictionary)
> 
> Thanks; I was actually meaning which area/year of the Jargon's history
> it appeared in; from the Nootka Sound fur trade era, from Astoria/Ft
> Vancouver, from later? 

Right. I think your etymological suggestion is an interesting one. But it is
important to establish that the word would have been used in Russian at that
period, and was not just something your pizza boys picked up recently.

Ross Clark