tlingit and/or chinuk wawa Sakwnein

[Iutzi-mitchell Roy]

Last week (19 APR 03), Tlingit Elder Agnes Bellinger was telling me that
sakwnein in Tlingit originally referred to the dried, processed and cooked
roots from koox, a.k.a. chocolate lily, indian rice, kamchatka lily.

Roy Iutzi-Mitchell

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Robertson [mailto:TuktiWawa at NETSCAPE.NET]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 1:18 PM
To: CHINOOK at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: [TLINGIT_LANGUAGE-L] Tlingit alphabet names


LhaXayam,

John, though I don't know Lingit, the word you mention below looks likely to
be borrowed from Chinook Jargon /saplil/.  Lingit presumably would
substitute the unpronounceable /p/ with a "kw", and unpronounceable /l/ with
"n".

Many Native languages borrowed this same word, for example Coast Salish
languages of Washington.  The origin of the word hasn't been pinned down,
but it's apparently from the lower Columbia River region, rather than from
Lingit.

So it may be just a coincidence that "sakwnein" looks like it contains the
Lingit "sakw".

As for the original meaning of the word, a funny thing is that this also
hasn't been determined.  Scholars of Chinook Jargon debate whether the word
first referred to flour or to bread, or to a root harvested by Native
people; what's clear from the earliest records is that if you wanted to be
very clear that you meant bread (not flour) in Chinook Jargon, you could say
/paya saplil/...that's literally "cooked saplil"...the exact same
description found in Lingit!

Hope these notes are of some use.

Lhush-san,

--Dave R.

John Palmes <johnpalmes at GCI.NET> wrote:

>Another example is a word I just figured out because Jeff Leer gave us
>the word sakw.... sakw means something like the ingredients for
>something, or something that will become something else after some
>process. I probably won't be gramatically correct,,, but Axh hit sakw...
>might be a pile of building materials for my future house.
>
>So sakwnein is the word for flour. Bread is sakwnein eewu.... "cooked
>bread" is the translation in the dictionary. These days people
>(including teachers) have gotten sloppy and tell you that sakwnein is
>the word for bread. The meaning of the word has been lost because of
>tranlation.. and it is lost to speakers as well as students because
>almost nobody "thinks" about these things the way you say we do.


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