Velar "k" vs. English "k"?

[Tom Larsen]

Well, I'm not sure, because I don't really know all that much about
Arabic, especially not Arabic dialects.  But the q in Chinook shouldn't
be a pharyngeal.  The pharyngeals in Arabic, pronounced I believe as you
describe, with the tongue low and the throat tightened, are supposed to
be the "ayn" and also that other letter the name of which escapes me but
which is usually transliterated as an "h" with a dot under it.(Maybe
it's called "h[with-dot-under-it]aa"?). Chinook also has the sound that
Boas wrote as q! but which is more commonly written now as q' which is
called a "glottalized q" or an "ejective q". (Boas called it a "fortis"
q, but now days "fortis" means something else.  Sigh.) This could be
described as "explosive", but it's still also uvular, not pharyngeal.  I
don't think Chinook has pharyngeals.  And if Cairene Arabic pronounces
"qaaf" as a pharyngeal rather than as a uvular, then I'm not sure what
other sound I could compare it to in any language that you're likely to
know (though admittedly I don't know what all languages you know other
than Arabic). To pronounce a q, try starting with a k, and then lower
your tongue a bit and move it back further (but not so far low and back
that you're going to get a pharyngeal, and don't tighten your throat).

Tom

Nadja Adolf wrote:

>Thanks.
>
>Another question:
>
>In the dialect of Arabic that I am studying (Cairene),
>the qaaf is pronounced with the tongue low, and the
>throat closed enough to make it a bit explosive - but
>the kaaf is essentially an English k without
>aspiration as in the word "likewise" as described in
>Volume 1 of the text "Alif-Baa."
>
>Are these the same sounds, these pharyngeals I think
>they call them?
>
>--- Tom Larsen <larsent at pdx.edu> wrote:
>
>
>>Unfortunately it's not only the phonetic symbols
>>that change over time
>>but also the terminology used to describe them.  In
>>Boas' time the
>>"English k" was sometimes called a "palatal" sound
>>(though perhaps not
>>by Boas in this case).  Now days "palatal" is used
>>to descibe sounds
>>that are farther forward than the English k (i.e.,
>>sounds where the
>>tongue touches, or at least approaches, the "hard
>>palate"), while the
>>English k now is usual is described as a "velar"
>>sound (the back part of
>>the tongue touches, or at least approaches the
>>"velum", aka the "soft
>>palate").  This is the terminaology that George Yule
>>is using.  In Boas'
>>time sounds that were farther back than the English
>>k were called
>>"velar", whereas now days such sounds are usually
>>called "uvular" (the
>>very back part of the tongue touches, or at least
>>approaches, the
>>"uvula", that funny thing that hangs down back in
>>your throat). Some
>>people call these latter sounds "postvelar" rather
>>than "uvular".  Boas'
>>q is similar in sound to the Arabic letter whose
>>name is sometimes
>>transliterated as "qaaf".  Boas' k is similar to the
>>Arabic letter whose
>>name is sometimes transliterated as "kaaf".
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>Nadja Adolf wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'm having a little trouble understanding some of
>>>
>>>
>>Boas
>>
>>
>>>definitions.
>>>
>>>In Boas Chinook Texts pronunciation guide he
>>>
>>>
>>describes
>>
>>
>>>the use of certain characters:
>>>
>>>q velar k
>>>k English k
>>>
>>>The problem I am having with this is that George
>>>
>>>
>>Yule
>>
>>
>>>describes the k sound used in English - in cook,
>>>
>>>
>>kick,
>>
>>
>>>kid, and cat as an "unvoiced velar."
>>>
>>>He also describes the "voiced velar" in English -
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>English g as seen in go, give, and bag.
>>>
>>>What did Boas mean by "velar k" and "English k".
>>>
>>>Also, Boas lists "obscure vowels." I can't find a
>>>definition for this. Does anyone have one?
>>>
>>>Thank you.
>>>
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>
>
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