Velar "k" vs. English "k"?

[Nadja Adolf]

Thanks! This really helped.

Qaaf is done way back, with the throat tightened.

I think the other letter you're thinking of is Ha.

--- Tom Larsen <larsent at pdx.edu> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm not sure, because I don't really know all
> that much about
> Arabic, especially not Arabic dialects.  But the q
> in Chinook shouldn't
> be a pharyngeal.  The pharyngeals in Arabic,
> pronounced I believe as you
> describe, with the tongue low and the throat
> tightened, are supposed to
> be the "ayn" and also that other letter the name of
> which escapes me but
> which is usually transliterated as an "h" with a dot
> under it.(Maybe
> it's called "h[with-dot-under-it]aa"?). Chinook also
> has the sound that
> Boas wrote as q! but which is more commonly written
> now as q' which is
> called a "glottalized q" or an "ejective q". (Boas
> called it a "fortis"
> q, but now days "fortis" means something else.
> Sigh.) This could be
> described as "explosive", but it's still also
> uvular, not pharyngeal.  I
> don't think Chinook has pharyngeals.  And if Cairene
> Arabic pronounces
> "qaaf" as a pharyngeal rather than as a uvular, then
> I'm not sure what
> other sound I could compare it to in any language
> that you're likely to
> know (though admittedly I don't know what all
> languages you know other
> than Arabic). To pronounce a q, try starting with a
> k, and then lower
> your tongue a bit and move it back further (but not
> so far low and back
> that you're going to get a pharyngeal, and don't
> tighten your throat).
>
> Tom
>
> Nadja Adolf wrote:
>
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Another question:
> >
> >In the dialect of Arabic that I am studying
> (Cairene),
> >the qaaf is pronounced with the tongue low, and the
> >throat closed enough to make it a bit explosive -
> but
> >the kaaf is essentially an English k without
> >aspiration as in the word "likewise" as described
> in
> >Volume 1 of the text "Alif-Baa."
> >
> >Are these the same sounds, these pharyngeals I
> think
> >they call them?
> >
> >--- Tom Larsen <larsent at pdx.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Unfortunately it's not only the phonetic symbols
> >>that change over time
> >>but also the terminology used to describe them.
> In
> >>Boas' time the
> >>"English k" was sometimes called a "palatal" sound
> >>(though perhaps not
> >>by Boas in this case).  Now days "palatal" is used
> >>to descibe sounds
> >>that are farther forward than the English k (i.e.,
> >>sounds where the
> >>tongue touches, or at least approaches, the "hard
> >>palate"), while the
> >>English k now is usual is described as a "velar"
> >>sound (the back part of
> >>the tongue touches, or at least approaches the
> >>"velum", aka the "soft
> >>palate").  This is the terminaology that George
> Yule
> >>is using.  In Boas'
> >>time sounds that were farther back than the
> English
> >>k were called
> >>"velar", whereas now days such sounds are usually
> >>called "uvular" (the
> >>very back part of the tongue touches, or at least
> >>approaches, the
> >>"uvula", that funny thing that hangs down back in
> >>your throat). Some
> >>people call these latter sounds "postvelar" rather
> >>than "uvular".  Boas'
> >>q is similar in sound to the Arabic letter whose
> >>name is sometimes
> >>transliterated as "qaaf".  Boas' k is similar to
> the
> >>Arabic letter whose
> >>name is sometimes transliterated as "kaaf".
> >>
> >>Tom
> >>
> >>Nadja Adolf wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>I'm having a little trouble understanding some of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Boas
> >>
> >>
> >>>definitions.
> >>>
> >>>In Boas Chinook Texts pronunciation guide he
> >>>
> >>>
> >>describes
> >>
> >>
> >>>the use of certain characters:
> >>>
> >>>q velar k
> >>>k English k
> >>>
> >>>The problem I am having with this is that George
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Yule
> >>
> >>
> >>>describes the k sound used in English - in cook,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>kick,
> >>
> >>
> >>>kid, and cat as an "unvoiced velar."
> >>>
> >>>He also describes the "voiced velar" in English -
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the
> >>
> >>
> >>>English g as seen in go, give, and bag.
> >>>
> >>>What did Boas mean by "velar k" and "English k".
> >>>
> >>>Also, Boas lists "obscure vowels." I can't find a
> >>>definition for this. Does anyone have one?
> >>>
> >>>Thank you.
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
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>


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