[gothic-l] Re: Names of Heruls

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "Troels Brandt" <trbrandt at p...> wrote:
> Dirk,
>
> The example below was from my side used as an example of coincidence
> and not of evidence, so I appreciate your eager confirmation of my
> statement.
>
> I agree that Gretes had nothing to do with Sweden (and neither with
a
> Danish road), and neither had he anything to do with Procopius'
> description of the events around Ochus and Datius. As you place his
> name in the same group of mistakes, you confirm that the mistakes
are
> due to missing ability to write the names correctly and not due to
> the deliberate manipulation, you have claimed about repatriation.



Troels,

I am not claiming anything. I just pointed out some observations which
lead me to belief that Procopius's report about the Heruls may be just
as dubious as some of his other writing. Nevertheless, neither I nor
you know the truth about these matters and the etymologies provided by
other list-members can neither support nor reject the conclusions that
 you drew from them.


>
> Maybe you should instead notice Bertil's quote of Marvin Tayler, who
> combines Aruth with the Harudes. As Arufus and maybe Aluith could be
> corrupted versions of Harud too, these names could be regarded as an
> indication of your earlier idea about a connection between Harudes
> and Heruls - but this is a wild guess.


I read Taylor's article before and find that it is not exactly a piece
of brilliance. I know that he thinks that Aruth and Aordos relate to
the tribal name of the Harudes. However, he forgets something, Harudes
are mentioned possibly on Jutland and definitely in Lower Saxony, but
never in Thule, i.e. Norway. I know some people in the past tried to
relate the Norwegian Hordaland to the Harudes. When they realised that
the Harudes could not have come from there they speculated that
Harudes from Jutland conquered Hordaland in Norway - all very
contrived and without any real basis.  Once again, we will have to
agree to disagree and the matter remains as open as it was before.

cheers,
Dirk






>
>
> --- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> >
> > You will admitt that this 'additional' evidence for the Thule-
> report
> > is somewhat farfetched. The sylabyl 'Far-' can be found in many
> > placenames and is not specifically Herulic or Gothic. This king
> Gretes
> > or Grepes is mentioned as the predessor of Ochos of the Illyrian
> > Heruls, (according to Dahn) he will not have had anything to do
> with
> > Sweden and I dobut that this Swedish road was named after him.
> >
> >
> >
> > >Last winter I found out, that nearby at
> > another
> > > track of the road the remains of a cikadafibula from the Danube-
> > > region (5th century) was found.
> >
> >
> > Indeed, East-Germanic 'Zikadenfibeln' were very fashionable for a
> > while and can be found over a very large area of Europe.
> > However, on the notion of archaeological evidence, the spread of
> > artificial skull deformations should be a good indication for
> > mirgations of Germanic people who had been under Hunnic
domination.
> > Among others J. Werner has pointed out in 'Archaelogie des
> > Attilareiches' that artificial skull deformations are concentrated
> in
> > areas were Heruls are believed to have settled (Moravia,
Neusiedler
> > See, etc.). A similar view was expressed by J. Tejral, as you
know.
> As
> > this practice remained in use in northern territories like
> Thuringia
> > well into the 6th century, the pagan Heruls of Thule might be
> expected
> > to have followed the same fashion for a while. However, as Werner
> and
> > others point out no such practice was ever encountered in
> Scandinavia.
> >
> > cheers
> > Dirk


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