[gothic-l] Re: Dieupentale/(in)Diupindala

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Heidet Philippe <heidet.ph at w...> wrote:
> le 23/01/02 17:09, faltin2001 à dirk at s... a écrit :
> 
> --- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> > Philippe,
> > 
> > Your question is very interesting. Comparing the
> > village name of Dieupentale to modern Swedish
> > would result in "Djupadal" or 'deep valley', a striking
> > similarity. The research in placenames with Gothic
> > relation is and interesting subject.
> > 
> > Gothically
> > 
> > Bertil
> > 
> 
> If you render the name Dieupentale as 'deep valley' into low Saxon
> you get Diependal, which is an even more striking similarity:-) But 
I
> think that this does not really lead anywhere. I could imagine that
> the place name could also mean something completely different, maybe
> involving the word 'Dieu'?
> 
> Dirk  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > > Hi, my name is Philippe Heidet and I'm new to this list.
> > > I would like to know if there are some studies about wisigothic
> settlements
> > > in South-West of France. It seems that gothic language only
> disappeared in
> > > the middle of the 9th century in some areas. Especially, I think
> about the
> > > village called 'Dieupentale' [(in) diupin dala -- deep valley]
> and also all
> > > the villages with the suffix '-ens' like 'Bessens' or '-ville'
> like
> > > 'Aucamville'.
> 
> 
> Dirk,
> in 'Dictionnaire étymologique des noms de lieux en France', A. 
Dauzat and
> Ch. Rostang write for Dieupentale' :<germ. 'tal' , ici le premier 
mot est
> gothique 'diopen' > (with an error for the adjective) and give the 
name of
> this village in 1268 : 'Dyopentala'. Even in old French, or in old 
occitan,
> the word 'Dieu' (as God) was never written or pronounced 
like 'Dyo'  ;-) and
> what about the meaning of '-pentala'  or actual '-pentale' ?



Hi Pilippe,

bringing 'dieu' into it was really just a wild suggestion. Can you 
tell us more about these villages? Do they make up a more or less 
compact settlement area? Are you aware of any historical sources that 
could be linked to Gothic settlements in this specific area?




> For different other villages in this part of France, Dauzat & 
Rostang wrote
> :
> Aucamville : 'D'un nom de femme germ. Auka- (got. aukan, augmenter) 
et lat.
> villa'
> Escatalens : 'gothique skathaling, personne nuisible (allemand 
Schadling)
> [Gamillscheg]' or
> Moussoulens : '(Moschelingus,934 ; Mociolens,1174) : nom d'homme 
germ.
> *Muskila, de Musco et suff -ing [Gamillscheg]' ...
> We find a lot of villages with those sorts of name in this part of 
France,
> especially with the -ens ending [for -ing(os) -> lat. -ingus] but 
not in
> Provence and not in the rest of France.



Those place names that incorporate a Germanic personal name, how sure 
is it that they are of Gothic and not Frankish origin?



> I am an Alsacian, what do you mean about the place 
name 'Dieffenthal', near
> the town I'm living ? :-)


That shows that the name was used by the Alamani as well. In fact, I 
think you would find several examples of such a name in several 
Germanic speaking areas. Alos, the '-ingen' ending in names that you 
mentioned above is also regarded as typical Alamanic.

Thanks for the information.
Dirk





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