[gothic-l] Re: Analogy between fate of Eruli and Burgundians?

[Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk@smra.co.uk>]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Troels Brandt <trbrandt at p...>"
<trbrandt at p...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh at y...> wrote:
> > --- "Troels Brandt <trbrandt at p...>"
> >
> >  I would
> > > rather think that the Heruls going north were
> > > followed by other pagan
> > > Germanic people being defeated or threathened at
> > > this time of the new
> > > Christian groups as Franks and Lombards. Alamans is
> > > one example as
> > > they were pressed from 498 AD - Thuringians is maybe
> > > another
> >
> > *****GK: When you say "followed" do you mean to say
> > that these Alamans and Thuringians joined the original
> > trekkers or that they went north on their own?*****
>
> While Procopius described the people escaping at last to the Romans
> as perplexed loosers (here I agree with Dirk execpt about the
> numbers), he described the group going north headed by many of
royal
> blood as a determined group - archaeology confirms that they at
least
> due to trade connections knew where to go. If we assume that this
is
> correct - which to me appears probable - the first group would be
> avoided and the last would be joined by people who were not
satisfied
> in their own society. This is a natural reaction, and small groups
of
> followers would normally follow the groups of trekkers - not go the
> same way themselves. I guess this was what happened with the
> Cimbrians too.
>
> I do not talk about whole tribes, but unsatisfied people in
societies
> under pressure by Franks, Lombards and Christianity - a pressure
> which may have caused split in these societies as we know happened
at
> least two times among the Heruls.
>
> This would result in the mixed archaeological pattern, which has
been
> discussed a lot of times.
>
> This is just mentioned as a more probable alternative than Dirks
> suggestion, and Dirks comments should be answered too in the above.
>
> Troels



Not really, firstly we cannot make a case that dissatisfied
Thurgingians, Varnians and Western Heruls joined the remaining
Eastern Heruls, simply because there is not a shred of evidence to
support such a claim. Secondly, from the migratory path that
Procopius suggests, we could -if anything - only assume that Eastern
Varnians and especially Slavic tribesmen followed the Heruls.
Thirdly, I have shown earlier that your argument that those people
would have joined the Heruls for religious reasons is particularly
invalid, since Thuringians, Langobards and Franks were largely pagan
at the time. All this looks to me like very desparate attempts to
arteficially inflate the strength of the remaining Heruls. For such
speculation we lack any support in the sources.

Dirk





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