[gothic-l] Gothic, Yiddish and High German

Fri Apr 29 13:31:26 UTC 2005

It seems to me that someone familiar with the various languages -- Gothic,
medieval high German, and Yiddish -- should be able to tell fairly easily
what the relation is among them (in the same way that the closer relation
between say Old English and Old Saxon than either to Gothic is readily
visible) ...
I don't have the necessary skills and, before even touching the subject of
how such a linguistic relationship might have worked (drawing in the whole
question of the Khazarian kaganate, etc), I'd like to know whether it is
even possible.  If Yiddish is clearly from the West, then all that
discussion becomes irrelevant, etc.

Thanks,
Tom MacMaster

åÇÏÒÏ× ÷ÌÁÄÉÍÉÒ said:
> ***********************
>
> Hi Tore!
>
> I have to grieve you. You contradict to yourself.
> It is commonly accepted that only a restricted circle
> of high ranked Khazarian rulers (the kagan, beks etc.)
> really adopted Judaism. The new religion did not spread
> among Khazarian population. This fact is known
> from narrative sources and well confirmed by archaeology.
> Hence, your "ruling class" that "were Turks" had to speak
> a Turkish language, not Gothic. Since that Turkish language
> was not written one, the Khazars used Hebrew
> (like Latin in Medieval Europe) for their documents
> and correspondence, not Yiddish. Further, where is
> the area, which "was previously Gothic"? Where did
> the local population speak Gothic in 8th century?
> Perhaps in Crimea, not on the banks of Don-river.
> By the way, your reference to Zolotye Gorki is absolutely
> irrelevant as the site represents the Saltovo-Mayatsk culture
> with no connection to the Goths and Chernyakhovsk culture.
> Nevertheless the problem remains. Origination of modern Jews,
> of at least Eastern Europe, from Khazaria is a very promising
> hypothesis, but there are some reefs on a direct way
> you tried to run recklessly.
>
> Best wishes,
> Vladimir
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com [mailto:gothic-l at yahoogroups.com]On
> Behalf Of Tore Gannholm
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 10:20 AM
> To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Gothic, Yiddish and High German
>
>
> Hi Tom,
> I fully agree with you.
> Khazaria converted to Judaism in the 8 th century and imported rabbis
> to lead their new religion. Even if the ruling class were Turks the
> area was previously Gothic and there must have been some Gothic
> speaking population left in this area.
> As far as I understand the language of the Jewish Khazarian state is
> the origin of Jiddish.
>
> Se about recent excavations
> http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland/picturestones_/khazar/default.htm
>
>
> Tore
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2005, at 10:44 PM, macmaster at riseup.net wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>  I am curious if anyone knows anything about the Yiddish language and
>> its
>>  possible ties to Gothic.
>>  While the conventional model of the origins of Yiddish has it being
>>  brought to eastern and central Europe from the Rhineland roughly at
>> the
>>  time of the Crusades and makes it a medieval Rhenish dialect, an
>>  acquaintance of mine asserts that the Yiddish language has more in
>> common
>>  (in grammar, morphology, vocabulary, etc) with the East Germanic
>> languages
>>  of the early middle ages than with the German of the Rhine.
>>  Not reading Hebrew and knowing less than "ein bissel Yiddishe", I
>> can't
>>  judge his hypothesis.š Maybe someone knows more and can speak on this?
>>
>>  thanks,
>>  Tom MacMaster
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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