Visigothic identity of Spain

[Tore Gannholm]

I presume you have read Obolenskys book

http://www.stavgard.com/medeltid/bogomils_/default.htm

Tore

On Oct 25, 2006, at 12:57 AM, macmaster at riseup.net wrote:

> Are there any contemporary sources that discuss these Septimanian  
> Arians?
> Also, didn't the Bosnian Bogomils give rise to the Cathars (hence  
> their
> 'nicname' of Bulgar & the root of English "bugger"!) while those were
> rooted in groups from eastern Anatolia?
> I'm not sure one can trace a Gothic element in the Albigensians/ 
> Cathars
> any more than one can in Huguenots or Jansenists!
>
> Thanks,
> Tom MacMaster
>
> Ingemar Nordgren wrote:
> > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "michelsauvant" <michelsauvant at ...>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I red also that some cathars were refugied among the Bosnian,
> >> because they were prosecuted in South of France (13th century).
> >>
> >> I red also that catharism in South of France started from a
> >> religious group living in Bulgaria around the 10th century.
> >>
> >> I red also that the last parts of Visigothic kingdom still arian
> >> during the 7th, 8 th century was the Septimanie and the country
> >> around Barcelona. Even during muslim reign they was an arian
> >> visigothic king in Septimania.
> >> And the lords living there where often battle against the catholic
> >> power in Toledo. N.B. The Catalans, since that time, followed these
> >> tradition until now against Madrid, even if the religion is not the
> >> cause of their opposition since centuries.
> >>
> >> The heart of cathar country ( where the cathar castles are stil
> >> there) is geographicly a part of the Visigothic Septimania.
> >>
> >> During the 9th century, the emperor Carolus Magnus forced people
> >> living there to become catholics. I assume that a part of them
> >> became cathars because of the arian tradition to be opposed to Roma
> >> (of course they were heretics for Roma).
> >>
> >> My conclusion is the likely continuity between arian Visigothics,
> >> and some bosnians Ancestors through cathar people, with a common
> >> opposition to Roma.
> >>
> >> Michel
> >
> > Salut Michel!
> >
> > Je suis très heureuse pour le verification de ma  
> hypothèse!
> > I have all the time connected the later Cathars and Albingenses with
> > an inbreed from former Arians. Specially the tolerance included is
> > mutual for them and Germanic Arianism.And, as you say, they were  
> then
> > used to be regarded as heretics. I however did not know there was an
> > Arian king in Septimania that late, but it indeed explains a lot. It
> > also gives a new light on the debated Agots/Cagots which I have  
> indeed
> > suspected to be Arian outcasts after the formal conversion of the
> > Visigothic realm into Catholicism. Your information strengthens this
> > hypothesis.
> >
> > Salutations cordiales!
> > Ingemar
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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