Want your suggestions

[Michael Erwin]

On Sep 14, 2006, at 12:21 PM, ualarauans wrote:

> Hails, Frithureik
>
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts at ...> wrote:

<snip>

>> Here's what I need you to help me with:
>>
>> 1) Politics, political, politician.
>
> Nice occasion to start thinking what the politics actually is :)
> a) science or art of governing a state. If "state" be reiki (it also
> can imply "state power" I guess), then it could be a compound with
> reiki- or a couple of words. I'd suggest *reikileisei F.-n as an
> abstract noun (lit. "knowledge of rule", like lubjaleisei "knowledge
> of herbs" > "witchcraft"). "Political" being then *reikileis,
> and "politician" – substantivized *reikileis, sa *reikileisa (just
> like lubjaleisai pl. translating Greek noun GOHTES in 2. Tim 3:13).
> b) political affairs, i.e. debates, elections etc – no idea at the
> moment.
> c) political principles - muneis (pl.) bi *reikinassu? *reikinassus
> M.-u would probably come close to what we mean with "state policy",
> i.e. "way of those at power to act in internal or external affairs",
> for instance, sa innuma reikinassus N-landis ist manamildeis. The
> verb reikinon attested as "to rule over smb./smth" could probably be
> used for "to execute political power". "Politician" as "statesman" –
> maybe *reikinonds M.-nd or something like?

In my understanding, statecraft is only part of politics. A polis  
might be a gawi; the people are the thiuda; the government is  
probably the reik-something; reikinassus looks okay there.

We have two main sources for Gothic political semantics: (1)  
Wulfila's translation and (2) political (usually royal) names.  
Wulfila generally applies some terms to Jesus (thiudans, frauja,  
etc.) and other terms to ambiguous or villainous figures (reiks,  
kindins, etc.). Most of the political names involve -reiks (or -ric)  
(but not in the late 370s/early 380s).

A ruler is, of course, reiks (in monarchies this would mainly denote  
the monarch; in other places, this could easily denote any politician  
or lobbyist, while connoting either ambition or corruption); an  
advisor is, in Wright, ragineis (including P.M., cabinet, and legal  
counsel?); an official is, of course, andbahts (excepting cabinet  
officials). Of course we still need words to distinguish cabinet from  
legislature from courts.

A popular leader might be thiudans, especially if he is shaping  
politics and he is not a politician, e.g. MLK. But thiudans might  
mean something else, and something else might mean this. Any other  
suggestions?

>> 2) Independent, (maybe also a word for dependent).
>> I already used a word 'silbaraginonds' in the meaning 'self
> governing'
>> so I want a word with a meaning so similar as possible to
> independent.
>
> *silbaraginonds is good in that meaning. If we describe a country
> dependent on another country, could we invent smth like
> *skattagibands or *gildagibands, lit. "paying money", "tributary"
> (cf ON skattkonungr, a king dependent on another king and paying him
> tribute (skattr)). I know "tributary" didn't necessarily connote a
> political dependence as we understand it today, but the word could
> acquire more abstract semantics with time. For instance, both the
> Eastern and the Western Empires were *skattagibandona to Attila, but
> they weren't in fact politically dependent on the Hunnish tribal
> union, but only forced to pay them. But for nowadays, we could
> probably say: Fawaim menothum uslithanaim warth Swartafairguni reiki
> unskattagibando "a couple of months ago Montenegro became an
> independent state".
>
> To emphasize that a country has liberated itself of a dependence
> which was very hard to bear, one could probably use *jukalaus as
> opposed to *ufjukeis -ja "subjugated" (after ufaitheis)

We might also want words for degrees of federation or alliance.

>> 3) Relation, (german verhältniss).
>> E.g. In the sentence: They have destroyed all the patriarchal and
>> idyllic relations.
>
> *gaha:hi N.-ja? Though it's more to German Zusammenhang (cf. the
> attested adverb gahahjo which Streitberg translates as "im
> Zusammenhang". Or maybe one could use gawiss
> F.-i "Verbindung", "Band" (ibidem) in an abstract sense.
> "Gaterun allos audagos gawissins thozei thai airizans anafulhun".

I have no idea what the example sentence means.

>> 4) Personal, (may also a word for person).
>> E.g. In the sentence: The personal dignity.
>
> Probably a possessive pronoun + silbins M./silbons F. for "personal"
> would do. E.g. theina silbins wairthida "your personal dignity". To
> translate "person" is a difficult task. *manawaihts F.-i "individual
> human being"? Maybe mannisko N.-n, irrespective of the person's
> gender?

I'd start with 'andwairthi' - presence. personal would be the  
genitive - andwairthjis.

>> 5) Admire.
>> E.g. In the sentence: The two towers, which they so much admire.
>
> sildaleikjan? Jaina twa kelikna ana thaimei (bi thoei, [in] thize)
> sildaleikjand swa abraba
>
>> 6) Complement, (german ergänzung)
>
> *biauk N.-a (bi-aukan "to add")?

In the sense of 'perfect match' or 'that which completes'?

I'd go by context, but 'anthar halbs' might work in some cases.

(regardless of its English meaning).

>> 7) Instrument, (not necessarly a musical instrument).
>> Here I mean e.g. a instrument of production.
>
> Maybe, *saru N.-wa, pl. sarwa, attested as "weapons", but cf. OE
> searo "device", "design", "arms", "equipment".

Sounds good to me.

>> This would realy help me alot. So please give me your best ideas.
>
> Ualarauans

I'd like to help more but I'm out of my depth.

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