Nauh niu liuþ (3)

[Fredrik]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> > Þan, hvan wairsist ist
> 
> Þanuh, biþe wairsist ist
> Þaruh, þan(ei) wairsist ist
> Jah þan, (swa)swe wairsist ist
> 
> (Or any other combination of either 'þanuh', 'þaruh' or 'jah þan' +
> either 'biþe', 'þan(ei)' or '(swa)swe'. 'þan' at the very beginning 
of
> a clause always means "when". As I mentioned in my previous post,
> 'hvan' would only be used in a direct or indirect question (e.g.
> direct: "when will they come?"; indirect: "I don't know when they 
will
> come").
> 
could you make combinations of these in any way?
like jah þaruh...?
would þanuh, þan...sound repeatedly?

> > jah ni waihts hilpiþ
> 
> That's good. Equally acceptable alternatives: jah waihts ni hilpiþ;
> jah ni hilpiþ waihts.
> 
> > Bristand swe in wunjai brusteis bagmis.
> 
> The grammar looks fine to me, and you've got some good alliteration
> there. Alternatively, you could used the attested verb '(us)keinan':
> uskeinand swe in wunjai / in hlasein / miþ fahedai 
brusteis/bristilons
> bagmis.
> 
> > Þan, hvan ni faurhtei ju þanaseiþs haldiþ,
> 
> þanuh, biþe waihts faurhteino/agise (ju) þanaseiþs/þanamais ni 
haldiþ
> 
is faurhteino genitive plural? so it means then, when thing of fears 
no longer holds.
can faurhtei be used as i did?

> You've got a choice of word orders here. There is a tendency to 
place
> 'ni' directly before the verb, but it's also not unusual to put it
> before words like 'waiht(s)' or 'þanaseiþs/þanamais', either as well
> as or instead of before the verb. Optionally, 'ni' can be placed at
> the beginning of the clause with the verb directly after it.
> 
> > driusand in glitmunjai drupans tainis
> 
> Good. (Or: driusand glitmunjandans drupans tainis.)
> 
> > ufarmaudjand þatei
> 
> Good, or: ufarmunnond þammei
> 
> > þlahsnanai wesun
> 
> Either 'þlahsidai wesun' or 'þlahsnodedun'.
> 
nice, the latter sounds fine.

> > fram þamma niujin
> 
> Good.
> 
> > ufarmaudjand þatei karanai wesun bi fara -
> 
> ufarmaudjand þatei ins *faros/wratodaus kara was
> ufarmunnond þammei [...]
> 
I don't understand this at all, could you explain this further.
(i cannot make that sentence make any sence to me)

> > ufkunnun
> 
> ufkunnand, weak class 3 [
> http://www.wulfila.be/lib/streitberg/1910/HTML/B076.html ].
> 
> > aina stika
> 
> The attested phrase is 'in stika melis' "in a moment of time",
> litterally a "point of time", L 4:5 (I'm not sure whether this means
> "immediately, without delay" or "just for a moment, after which the
> vision disappeared) [
> http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/browse/text/?book=3&chapter=4 ]. But 
here
> you could maybe use the accusative expressing duration of time 'stik
> melis' "for a moment". 'stiks' is presumed to be a masculine i-stem,
> because of cognates, although it's only attested in Gothic this once
> in the dative singular.
> 
should I still use the indefinite ain? would it be ainana stik melis?

> > þo þwastiþa mikiliston seinon,
> 
> The possessive adjectives are only declined strong,
I have probably read that, but isnt smth I (obviously) have 
remembered, thnx.

 and the
> superlative of 'mikils' is 'maists': þo maiston þwastiþa seina;
> þwastiþa seina þo maiston.
> 
yes ofcoz, this is probably the most stupid mistake anyone has done 
ever.

> > hveiland in þizai triggwein
> > þizaiei fairhvu gaskapjiþ.
> 
> I'd make this an accusative + infinitive construction: hveilan in
> stomin þatei fairhvu gaskapjiþ "resting in the confidence that 
creates
> the world"; hveilan in trauainai sei fairhvu gaskapjiþ "resting in 
the
> trust that creates the world".
> 
could you really use infitinive here? hveilan still refers to the 
drops, and the form used above as in uskunnand ends with -and, so 
shouldnt hveilan also do that?
stomin, dative singular of stoma (weak masculine) right?
shouldn't þatei follow that and be þammei in that case?

> LN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@> wrote:
> >
> > The poet strikes again!
> > 
> > Just kidding. But I've tried to translate a poem.
> > I just need your ideas about my word choices and ways to express.
> > 
> > The original from which I translated is in swedish so now I will 
try
> > to translate the same one to english for you to understand.
> > The english translation is probably much mor correct and the 
gothic
> > is more freely translated.
> > 
> > Gothic first:
> > 
> > Jai þannu agliþ
> > 
> > 
> > Jai þannu agliþ hvan bruteis bristand.
> > Duhvê sáinjái wêzr?
> > Duhvê bindada alla gaírnei unsara sô heitô
> > in þamma frusanin báitrafalwin?
> > Hulþs was bruts sa alla wintrus.
> > Hva ist þata niujô, þatei taíriþ jah spraggeiþ?
> > Jai þannu agliþ hvan bruteis bristand,
> > agliþ þamma wahsjandin
> > jah þamma lukandin.
> > 
> > Jai þannu aglus ist hvan drupans driusand.
> > Reirands fram karai kauruba eis hahand,
> > haftjand sik ana taina, swilland, gleidand -
> > Dalaþ ins þinsai kaurus, hvaiwa kliggand.
> > Aglus wisan unwiss, faurhts jah skaidans,
> > Aglus ufkunnan diupein þo þinsandein jah haitandein,
> > nauh bileiban sitands jah þatain skudon -
> > aglus bileiban wiljan
> > jah driusan wiljan.
> > 
> > Þan, hvan wairsist ist jah ni waihts hilpiþ,
> > Bristand swe in wunjai brusteis bagmis.
> > Þan, hvan ni faurhtei ju þanaseiþs haldiþ,
> > driusand in glitmunjai drupans tainis
> > ufarmaudjand þatei þlahsnanai wesun fram þamma niujin
> > ufarmaudjand þatei karanai wesun bi fara -
> > ufkunnun aina stika þo þwastiþa mikiliston seinon,
> > hveiland in þizai triggwein
> > þizaiei fairhvu gaskapjiþ.
> > 
> > 
> > And now, here's my affort to english translation:
> > 
> > Yes it does hurt when sprouts/buds burst.
> > Why else would the spring hesitate?
> > Why would all our hot longing
> > be tied in the frozen bitterpale?
> > Hidden was the sprout the entire winter.
> > What's the new, tearing and blasting?
> > Yes it does hurt when sprouts burst,
> > hurting for the growing
> > and the closing
> > 
> > Yes it's hard when dropps are falling.
> > Quaking by anxiety they're haning heavily,
> > clinging by the twig, swelling, gliding
> > the weight pulling them down, how they cling.
> > Hard to be uncertain, afraid and devided,
> > hard to feel the pulling and calling from the depth,
> > still remain sitting and just shiver
> > hard to wanting to stay
> > and wanting to fall
> > 
> > Then, when it's worst and nothing helps,
> > bursting, like jubilation, the sprouts of the tree.
> > Then, when no fear no longer will hold
> > fall in a glitter the drops of the twig
> > forget that they were scared by the new
> > forget that they were anxious about the journey
> > feel for a second their greatest safety,
> > resting in the confidence
> > that creates the world
> > 
> > Site of poeam
> > http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/glydian/poema.html
> > 
> > Swedish:
> > http://www.karinboye.se/verk/dikter/dikter/ja-visst-gor-det-
ont.shtml
> >
>


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