Introduction and King Wamba

[Andreas Schwarcz]

Dear Ingemar,
No,it was not in use before the Visigoths became 
catholics, and some suppose that it was introduced 
by Chindasvinth. But José Orlandis already refers to 
a citation of unctioned bishops and kings in 
Isidore's De rebus ecclesiasticis before 631 C.E. 
and thought it probable that already Liuva II, the 
son of Reccared, was unctioned.

All the best,
                Andreas

 

"-"
ao.Univ.Prof.Dr.Andreas Schwarcz
Institut für österreichische  Geschichtsforschung
Universität Wien
Dr.Karl Lueger-Ring 1
A 1010 Wien
Austria
Tel.0043/1/42-77-272-16
Fax 0043/1/42-77-92-72
andreas.schwarcz at univie.ac.at


On 12 Feb 2012 at 17:59, Ingemar Nordgren wrote:

> 
>  
> Hi Andreas!
> 
> I did not grasp the meaning of unction but now I have checked. I should 
> have done it before of course. Still it is evidently a ceremonie that 
> was not in use in Arian times as far as I grasp.
> 
> Best wishes
> Ingemar
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Schwarcz" 
> <andreas.schwarcz at ...> wrote:
> >
> > Wamba was indeed the first king of the Visigoths for 
> > whom the ceremony of unction is expressedly 
> > attested, but alreeady the canones of the IVth 
> > council of Toledo in 633 imply that the kings were 
> > unctioned as part of their accession to the throne 
> > after the example of king David.
> > 
> > All the best,
> > Andreas
> > 
> > "-"
> > ao.Univ.Prof.Dr.Andreas Schwarcz
> > Institut für österreichische Geschichtsforschung
> > Universität Wien
> > Dr.Karl Lueger-Ring 1
> > A 1010 Wien
> > Austria
> > Tel.0043/1/42-77-272-16
> > Fax 0043/1/42-77-92-72
> > andreas.schwarcz at ...
> > 
> > 
> > On 12 Feb 2012 at 12:29, Ingemar Nordgren wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > There are several legends about Wamba and it is definitely not the 
> usual 
> > > way a Visigothic king was appointed. Some details even seem to be 
> part 
> > > of the trubadour tradition from Provence which later continues in 
> the 
> > > stories of King Arthur like the hunt of the hind. Also in the 
> Didriks 
> > > saga the same story of the hunt is recognizeable and it has as well 
> > > roots in the Bysantine tradition. I would pay no heed to that 
> story.This 
> > > was as well late in the Visigothic era and the kings now, since 
> Reccared 
> > > had claimed to be king of Gods grace, were Catholic and not Arian 
> and 
> > > the church had a strong position with the very conservative Catholic 
> > > Councils in Toledo persecuting both Arians and Jews. A saintly king 
> > > suited well into the picture. 
> > > 
> > > Welcome to the list. I as well hope we can discuss much history and 
> not 
> > > only language. It is a little peculiar that we discuss much more 
> Gothic 
> > > history on Germanic list than on Gothic where it indeed should be 
> > > discussed.
> > > 
> > > Best greetings
> > > Ingemar
> > > 
> > > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "indiejones46" <indiana.jones465@> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > I am new to this group and first wanted to introduce myself.
> > > > 
> > > > My name is Alex and i am interested in Gothic history (especially 
> > > after reading a book on Alaric the Great). I have a background in 
> > > archaeology (degree) and attend excavations in my spare time.
> > > > 
> > > > I feel i am just starting out on learning about the 'Goth's' and 
> find 
> > > this Forum useful. So thank you.
> > > > 
> > > > I wondered if i could throw out a question that has been 
> intriguing me 
> > > since i read about this. This is the 'unction' (right word?) of 
> Wamba 
> > > into a King. Is this the first king of the Visigothic race who was 
> > > 'crowned' in this way? The description i read of the ceremonial rite 
> > > seems exceedingly strange.
> > > > 
> > > > Does anyone here have a view on this? 
> > > > 
> > > > I would be most interested in discussing this further, of course, 
> if 
> > > others wish to as well.
> > > > 
> > > > Alex
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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