Indn Words for Science

[Mia - Main Red Pony]

Hi, Annie. 

Nice to hear from you. 

I have a theory, based on an observation by J. Peter Denny, in "Cultural Ecology of Mathematics: Ojibway and Inuit Hunters", in Native American Mathematics, Michael P. Closs (Ed). He says, "The dependence of the hunter on wild plants and animals leads to two crucial features in his pattern of living. First of all, he only alters the environment to a small degree and must for the most part adapt to its natural conditions. In contrast to this, agricultural and industrial societiers alter the environment to increasing degrees and strive hard to make the environment fit their needs. The second featurs arises as a consequence of the first. Since the technology needed for a small degree of alteration of the environment is itself restricted, any adult knows the whole repertoire. Consequently, there need be no specialization of occupation . . anyone can kill an animal, butcher it, and cook it; anyone can cut wood and bark from trees, shape them into a canoe, and paddle it." 

If we think of this in terms of questions asked and answered, we get a perspective that creates an equality of Societies, at least analytically, rather than the hierarchical structure most people either try to develop or ethnocentrically assume. In the hunter-gatherer groups, primary questions Must be: How can I know/learn about the world around me? How can I get what I need, without destroying what others' need, because these "others" are what sustain me, and if I destroy them, I too will be destroyed. 

In agricultural societies, the primary questions become: How can I manage my resources to feed me and my family? and, What are all these interesting, sometimes pleasant, sometimes unpleasant, things that occur when all us humans live together in this close space? 

In industrial societies, the questions become: What is it that "I" want? and, How can I totally reconfigure everything around me to conform to the answer to Question 1. 

People can come up with other questions, but just looking at these comparative pairs gives you an idea of how the semantics of the language have to be. 

Relative to your specific questions, which seem to be to be an effort to relate an understanding of indigenous understands to one of our two Societal types (either agricultural or industrial), I don't think it is appropriate to try to relate in that manner. Since we don't understand the domain of indigenous people In And Of ItSelf. . . we are comparing apples and motorcars when we try to "explain" indigenous understanding in terms of  "some other" understanding. 

A parallel would be: Here is your vocabulary: mitochondria, mitosis, amino acid, cell wall, well body, osmosis, diffusion, electrolyte. Please explain a robotically controlled assembly line using only these terms, plus the typical incidentals in English, where "incidentals" are considered prepositions, indefinite articles, and serializing adverbs such as "when", "then", "next". No additional concept terms may be introduced. 

"Science" is rather specific, regardless of culture. It is a way of knowing and learning by observing, measuring, predicting, and reproducing. I think that having to understand how Not to modify something is just as disciplined as having to understand how TO modify it. The critical portions of this process are the prediction and reproduction. For example, to make the statement, I think Darryl hates me, made up out of whole cloth, is not predictive, and certainly not reproducible. On the other hand, Feeding my plants makes them grow healthy and big, based on experience and observation, is very "scientific" in the procedural definition of science. 

I will end with a cultural joke, intended to provoke thought as much as humor. . . 

There's this little Jewish guy named Moishe. He is very religious, reads the Torah, follows the hundreds of rules for living, cleaning, preparing food, keeps the dietary restrictions. 

Every night, he prays, Oh G_d, please let me win the lottery. My children are going to college, my synagogue needs money to hire a Cantor, . . . . Every night he prays thus, and every night, G_d listens. 

One night, after praying thus for so many years, Moishe says to G_od, "Yahweh, Have I not been a good man? Have I not followed your rules? Have I not loved you to all my limits?"

And G_d, tired of listening to the prayers that come without a method for actualization, says to Moishe: "Moishe, Moishe! Help me out here! Buy a ticket!"

Mia

 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: annie ross 
  To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU 
  Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:35 AM
  Subject: Re: Indn Words for Science


  hello

  i too am interested in words, not as a linguist, but an a scholar of oral histories, and as an artist and teacher interested in native philosophy and place.

  i wonder, would the mainstream concept of 'science' be compartmentalized outside of the panoply of information in native logic?  (would 'science'  be a separate category/subject word?)  or...perhaps, would there be a suffix or prefix or modifier to a word that would mean something like 'understanding' in an indigenous language ,  that would translate to what is meant by the western word "science" ?  
  what if the word mainstream culture uses, "shaman'" mean, in part, "scientist'?  aren't our medine men and women, in part, true scientists? and what of other indigenous occupations - those that demand study, observation, analysis, knowledge of factual information - are not those 'science', using an indigenous scientific method of personal experience?

  annie ross


  Mia - Main Red Pony <miakalish at REDPONY.US> wrote:
    Hi, Andre,

    This is a wonderful document for the Exploratoria that we will be building
    if we get the big NSF grant we applied for.

    I wasn't asking for the words for use in teaching materials, though. I
    wanted them for a generalized approach that says, It's time to stop looking
    at Indns as simple, superstitious creatures, because white people screwed up
    to begin with by biasing their learning about the people here because of
    J.W. Powell.

    I am taking a class in petroglyphs, and the ideas that the people writing
    come up with are really, truly, offensive (at least to me, but being a
    Cognitive Psychologist, I am probably more sensitive to it than most
    people). On the one hand, we have David Lewis-Williams with his theory that
    much of what has been created on rocks is "shamanistic in nature", a theory
    he started to try to "understand " the rock paintings of the San bushmen, and
    on the other Ron Eckland, who has aptly and admirably demonstrated that
    African patterns are based on fractal geometry. As you might well imagine,
    David Lewis-Williams had only to make his theories up in his head, and
    search through the literature finding people who had written things that
    agreed with his ideas. Eckland, on the other hand, had actually to derive
    the equations, and run them through the computer to demonstrate that the
    equations appropriately represented the structures.

    I think I have mentioned this before: I use technology to develop effective
    teaching materials, but unlike most people, I target my goals at adults. The
    things I have developed so far work well for children, but more
    significantly, they work well for adults, who people think can't learn
    languages. Now I am expanding a little, to take the simultaneous,
    multi-perceptual presentation form and apply it to more difficu lt learning,
    like computer algorithms, for example. This is a course most people fail; I
    think I can develop materials that teach enough, painlessly, enjoyably, so
    most everyone does well. I say "most", because you can't guarantee that
    everyone will do the class work.

    This was kind of an aside: my goal here is really simple. It is to be able
    to say, Powell was a vicious idiot, and the rest of us are living with the
    results of that perniciousness.

    Kind of harsh, huh? There was a lake named after him when they dammed the
    Colorado. Harrington, unarguably one of the best linguists and ethnographers
    Ever, left us a clue in a 1907 publication that Powell was forcing all
    analysis of Native languages in the English structure and component
    framework. He could do that, because he was the gatekeeper at the
    Smithsonian.

    So thanks, Andre. I was going to say, I guess there are no words for
    scientific and mathematical concepts left in y our language, either. However,
    I have one more perspective to share. The "tools" that a non-destructive,
    hunter-gatherer society uses (and looks for) are different from the tools a
    sedentary, ecologically destructive agricultural society uses (and looks
    for) and both of these are extremely much different from the tools of an
    industrial society. These different "ways of surviving" also contain
    different sets of questions asked and answered, cultural goals and
    expectations, and vocabularies in general.

    Hence my question: Did any Indn words survive the Powell Purge?

    Hope you are having a nice day. It is beautiful here in NM; a wonderful
    winter storm went through leaving us much needed rain and snow. I know you
    don't have that problem up there in exquisitely beautiful northern
    California.

    best,
    mia
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Andre Cramblit" 
    To: 
    Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:04 PM
    Subject: Re: Indn Words for Science


    FYI (attached)

    Mia - Main Red Pony wrote:

    > Hello.
    >
    > In the middle of these devastating assaults on Native languages, laws
    > that say classes must be taught in English, No [Rich] child left
    > behind. . . and so on, I have what I think is an important question to
    > ask, especially for people working on revitalization.
    >
    > Do your languages have words for science?
    >
    > I have been looking through my dictionaries (Young and Morgan's
    > Colloquial Navajo, Perry's Western Apache Dictionary, Bray's version
    > of the Western Apache-English Dictionary, Toluwa and Hupa]. I have a
    > small set of really basic words: add, subtract, multiply, divide,
    > circle, square, triangle, measure, count, repeat, rhythm, angle, line,
    > cloud, mountain, rain.
    >
    > Most of the languages have recorded words for circle, mountain , and
    > rain. Many have words for cloud, although Toluwa, in the Pacific
    > Northwest, and with words for fog, don't have one listed for "cloud".
    >
    > So, my really important question: Do Your Languages have these words?
    > Some?
    >
    > You don't have to send me what they are, unless you would enjoy
    > engaging with them. But I would like to know if they exist.
    >
    > I am convinced that Powell created a limited, and somewhat pernicious,
    > view of the people who lived here originally with his prescriptive
    > Introduction to the Study of Indian Languages: Words, phrases and
    > sentences to be collected.
    >
    > I am also convinced that without this narrow and exclusive view, some,
    > of not all, of the language issues that we have today, particularly
    > with regard to languages which may be used in schools for teaching,
    > would not exist.
    >
    > The question arose because I am loo king at geometric patterns at Three
    > Rivers Petroglyphs. The patterns show up in pottery designs in
    > 1100-1300 ad. I wondered if people had conceptualized these forms
    > linguistically.
    >
    > Thanks in advance for your help.
    >
    > Mia Kalish
    >
    > PS: Thanks for that information on grants, Andre. Wouldn't this be
    > just a Perfect Project!
    >
    > "Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations
    > which we can perform without thinking about them. Alfred North Whitehead
    >
    > Mia Kalish, M.A.
    > PhD Student, Computer Science
    > Tularosa, New Mexico USA 88352
    >


    --


    André Cramblit: andre.p.cramblit.86 at alum.dartmouth.org is the Operations
    Director Northern California Indian Development Council NCIDC
    (http://www.ncidc.org) is a non-profit that meets the development needs
    of American Indians

    To subscribe to a news letter of interest to Na tives send an email to:
    IndigenousNewsNetwork-subscribe at topica.com or go to:
    http://www.topica.com/lists/IndigenousNewsNetwork/subscribe/?location=listin
    fo
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ilat/attachments/20040307/499116d4/attachment.htm>