traditions of assimilation...

Sat Mar 1 04:22:03 UTC 2008

I appreciate these responses too
I feel sometimes its like being a fire marshal, trying to find the cause of
a fire.
faulty wires? arson? intolerance? how did we lose it ...all?
If we can find the cause, we might be able to plan better reconstruction.
If it's only to point fingers and pass blame then its probably not going to
help.

Though spiritual beliefs are sacred to individuals and are to be honored
it seems fitting that proselytizing RELIGIONS as institutions be
scrutinized,
after all they are by nature the aggressor...seeking converts and degrees of
conformity.
I include Secularism as well, because it can be just as absolutist
(convinced of itself)
and it does have sway over much of our educational systems. Secularism can
be
demeaning because it has also crafted it's own LENS to view all else.
Though it accepts "spirituality" ,its often convinced its mere psychology.
"nothing really out there,anyway, so let 'em chant"

There is a certain level of tolerance among Evangelicals for indigenous
culture.
There is even support for indigenous revitalization efforts, as long as one
holds the 
correct LENS understanding that all humanity came from the literal Eden.
And if its fact (God said it!) then everyone in the world needs to know it.
Therefore Wycliffe Bible Translators goal from real conviction ,has been
 to "reduce" every language of the world into written form so people can
read
the Bible and know that they came from Adam and Eve,  they are born in sin,
a tower caused God to create  the confusion of languages....etc..

What is the source of our passion for revitalization?
Can we use any of this burnt stuff for re-building?

just some stirring of the pot,
Richard Zane Smith

On 2/26/08 8:44 AM, "Susan Penfield" <susan.penfield at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> Richard,
>  
> Thank you for your well stated comments. Hopefully, we all stand by those
> who are abused. I have enjoyed much of this thread and found the varying
> opinions important to be aware of since this is a sensitive issue.
>  
> I do want to add that, not unlike the Mormons you mentioned,
> Dr. Dirk Elzinga has dedicated much of his professional life to Indigenous
> communities and has accomplished a great deal for Indigenous languages.
> The community members I know who have worked with him have the highest
> regard for the care and professionalism he consistently demonstrates and are
> appreciative of the fact that he does not push his religion at them.
>  
> I do not support the policies of many Christian churches, and other religiions
> as
> well, which condon and contribute to the opression of Indigenous people and
> which, in turn, 
> thus contribute heavily to language decline. -- much of this is still going on
> worldwide and we should all
> be open to discussions that raise awareness about this issue.
>  
> All of this points to the complexities  and hard work demanded of language
> revitalization -- all the way from
> the real daily work of language teaching, to the more complicated and deeply
> ingrained conflicting
> ideologies which drive or detract from these efforts.
>  
> Susan
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
>  
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:
>> Hi Mia,
>> thanks for the comments and for your view on these things.
>> Its not easy but i've been trying my hardest to NOT see things as "good and
>> bad" but trying to understand what happens when different ideologies and
>> different beliefs strike sparks against one another.
>> 
>> I've seen "ugly" there on the Navajo Rez too, and in Bluff and Blanding.
>> But i've also known Mormons like Bruce McGee who
>> grew up around Pinion and Keams Canyon, his father fluent in Navajo
>> as a trader. Bruce( a bishop) has dedicated his life to helping Native
>> Artists get recognition to make a living as artists and he works now at the
>> Heard Museum in Phoenix. Also Leroy Garcia (a bishop) of Santa Fe who
>> own and operate Blue Rain Gallery, who spends his life promoting
>> us artists sparing no expense and always celebrating native cultures.
>> 
>> So i'm choosing to view the "sparks" that fly ...carefully
>> But I WILL stand alongside people I see being abused.
>> I've had to do a little "calm mediation" between strangers when i see
>> women being mistreated by "boyfriends"....several times.
>> My experience is  that a calm-strong stand by a womans side can unnerve
>> a verbal abuser , allowing him to hear how foolish he sounds
>> when he is  "the sound of only one voice yelling"
>> 
>> Calm can do amazing things in volatile situations
>> (actually I was calmly prepared to kick out the guys knee)
>> When we look into paths of rebuilding,rekindling....and revitalization,
>> we can choose to look at a ruin as a sad wreck or a monument.
>> 
>> But whatever, rebuilding is still hard work!
>> 
>> Richard Zane Smith
>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/25/08 2:51 PM, "Mia Kalish" <MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US> wrote:
>> 
>>> > Wow. Have we posted a count lately on how many versions of the bible we
>>> have
>>> > written in different languages?
>>> > Have we counted how many Hawaiians and Polynesians - and American Indians
>>> > for that matter - died because missionaries had entirely the wrong idea
>>> > about clothing, associating it with some constructed view of morality
>>> rather
>>> > than the need to maintain a comfortable and safe body temperature?
>>> > Have we counted how many people, especially women, have been made to feel
>>> > "less than" because they had a child out of wedlock, or because they
>>> didn't
>>> > want to dominated by their husbands?
>>> > Religion has always, always, always contributed to social and linguistic
>>> > hegemony, whether people - Dr?/Mr? Elzinga included - want to admit it.
>>> > And speaking specifically of Mormons? I am here on Navajo, and I can't
>>> count
>>> > the number of people who don't know who they are socially, culturally,
>>> > historically and linguistically because they were taken away as children
>>> and
>>> > placed - Specifically - in Mormon homes.
>>> > And I might add, from personal experience, these are some of the nastiest
>>> > and cruelest people I have ever met. Is it a function of Mormon - where I
>>> > have been told educated MEN have the most power, especially over women (so
>>> > you can guess how I think and feel about that!) - I don't know. I think it
>>> > is a matter of proselytizing justifying its behaviors to the hurt of
>>> others.
>>> >
>>> > So Dirk Mr/Dr Elzinga, I am sure there are a lot of lists where people
>>> talk
>>> > about how great the idea of changing language and culture by immersion of
>>> > white religious ideas into the bibles was and still is. But they aren't
>>> this
>>> > one.
>>> > By the way, I'm Jewish, and my idea of Christ doesn't even come close to
>>> > what the white mythics constructed in the name of power, destruction and
>>> > often just pure meanness.
>>> > Mia
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
>>> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
>>> > On Behalf Of Dirk Elzinga
>>> > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:05 AM
>>> > To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>> > Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...
>>> >
>>> > Oh, for Pete's sake.
>>> >
>>> > I signed on to this list to listen to, and engage in discussion about
>>> > indigenous languages and techonology (that is the list name, after
>>> > all). A discussion of my religious beliefs (I am a member of the
>>> > Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the religion whose name
>>> > you seem to be stepping around) isn't appropriate in this context,
>>> > nor does it contribute to the list's purpose. There are any number of
>>> > Mormon-bashing blogs and websites you can visit if that's your thing.
>>> >
>>> > Dirk Elzinga
>>> > --
>>> > Department of Linguistics and English Language
>>> > Brigham Young University
>>> > 4043 JFSB
>>> > Provo, UT  84602
>>> > 801.422.2117
>>> > Dirk_Elzinga at byu.edu
>>> >
>>> > On Feb 16, 2008, at 10:29 AM, MJ Hardman wrote:
>>> >
>>>> >> "Assimilation" is a mild way to say it.  And as to Republican
>>>> >> candidates --
>>>> >> the drop-out -- that religion does indeed hold as a dogma that the
>>>> >> US was
>>>> >> founded in order for the true church to be reestablished & thus,
>>>> >> yes, the US
>>>> >> belongs to white people, who have come to bring the Native
>>>> >> Americans back
>>>> >> into the fold, after they transgressed (explained in one of their
>>>> >> sacred
>>>> >> books) and thus were made dark -- the fold of the white folks, of
>>>> >> course.
>>>> >> The Native Americans aren't as dark as blacks, whose transgression was
>>>> >> worse, being descendants of Cain, though they have now been
>>>> >> forgiven and can
>>>> >> be brought into the fold.  Since Native Americans are all from the
>>>> >> lost
>>>> >> tribes of Israel, they have been rapidly welcomed into the fold,
>>>> >> including
>>>> >> by adoptions whenever possible.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And if what I wrote above sounds psychotic -- well, Mia, it's what
>>>> >> they do
>>>> >> indeed believe.  They soft-pedal a lot of it for outsiders, they
>>>> >> are *very*
>>>> >> concerned about 'image' -- they are, after all, selling a
>>>> >> religion.  It was
>>>> >> scary.  And what scares me now is the vice-presidency.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> MJ
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 2/14/08 3:08 PM, "Mia Kalish" <MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> There IS a tradition of "assimilation," usually no matter what it
>>>>> >>> takes to
>>>>> >>> get there. There was a story . . . Carolyn, Harrington's ex-wife,
>>>>> >>> found
>>>>> >>> papers in California that demonstrated the Indians were being
>>>>> >>> "baptized" by
>>>>> >>> 1st, clubbing them over the head until they were senseless and
>>>>> >>> couldn't
>>>>> >>> protest, and 2nd, being carried to the baptismal ceremony by their
>>>>> >>> guards,
>>>>> >>> who also functioned as the witnesses or whatever they call them.
>>>>> >>> The whole purpose of the boarding schools was to take children
>>>>> >>> away from the
>>>>> >>> influence of their families and cultures so they would grow up
>>>>> >>> "white."
>>>>> >>> I think the fact that they wrote this is very Freudian: People are
>>>>> >>> admitting, albeit subconsciously, that they are deliberately
>>>>> >>> interfering
>>>>> >>> with the lives of others.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> I heard a speech the other day by one of those Republicans who
>>>>> >>> dropped out
>>>>> >>> of the presidential race, and he actually seemed to believe that this
>>>>> >>> country "belongs" to white people. He had no understanding or
>>>>> >>> recognition of
>>>>> >>> the fact that colonizers engaged in active and sustained genocide
>>>>> >>> to kill
>>>>> >>> the people who were living here originally. And by the way, he had
>>>>> >>> all these
>>>>> >>> statistics of the number of "out of wedlock" births by people of
>>>>> >>> color.
>>>>> >>> Implicit in this is the cultural moré that womens' only function
>>>>> >>> in life is
>>>>> >>> to take care of men. (NOT.)
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Mia
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> >>> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
>>>>> >>> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
>>>>> >>> On Behalf Of Richard Smith
>>>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:40 PM
>>>>> >>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> yeah,
>>>>> >>> did you catch that....?   "a Tradition of Assimilation"
>>>>> >>> wow...amazing... we have traditionalists in office!
>>>>> >>> By the way...who's "tradition of assimilation?"
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> richard zane smith
>>>>> >>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On 2/11/08 8:55 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>> Momentum Building for Oklahoma Official English Bill
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>> http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/
>>>>> <http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/>
>>>>> >>> story/02-11
>>>>> >>> -2
>>>>>> >>>> 008/0004753576&EDATE=
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> ~~~
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> While there seems to be  respect for Native American languages,
>>>>>> >>>> these are
>>>>> >>> the
>>>>>> >>>> words of legislators behind the English-only bill in the Oklahoma
>>>>>> >>>> state
>>>>>> >>>> legislature:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> "...maintain a tradition of assimilation through our
>>>>>> >>>> common language of English."
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> It seems hard to reconcile this position with Native American
>>>>>> >>>> language
>>>>>> >>>> preservation.  Though I imagine the architects of such
>>>>>> >>>> legislation view NA
>>>>>> >>>> languages as "preservation at a distance".
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> l8ter,
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Phil
>>>>>> >>>> UofA
>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
> 
> 

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