Greek question & the pre-history of *nekwt
Patrick C. Ryan
proto-language at email.msn.com
Sun Mar 7 08:15:49 UTC 1999
Dear Glen and IEists:
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01 at hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, March 06, 1999 9:16 PM
>PATRICK:
>>In any case, I have subsequently revised my reconstruction to
>>*negh-w-.
>First, we will assume that you mean *negh<w>-, where <w> is superscript,
>as the moderator validly keeps pointing out but that you blatantly
>ignore.
I am sorry that you do not understand what a root extension is. In previous
postings, I have identified the -w- as a root extension. This has nothing to
do with g[w], which is the method I use to indicate the so-called
labiovelar.
[ Moderator's note:
I had also noted your use of the term "root extension", which I understood
perfectly (Petersson's _Wurzeldeterminativ_, for example), but assumed that
it was part of your misanalysis of the ASCII string "neghw-" as a palatal +
a labial rather than a badly written labiovelar. So lay off Mr. Gordon.
--rma ]
>This means that the labial element is _fused_ to the velar.
>There is no suffixing whatsoever. The phoneme *ghw is ONE element in
>this case, otherwise we should expect -v- in Sanskrit <nakti>. We don't,
>so that's it.
I have also written that I believe that possibly two roots were in use:
*negh- and *negh-w-. Do you not comprehend what you read?
[ Moderator's comment:
Since I did not comprehend it, either, I see no need to pursue this line of
insult any further.
--rma ]
<snip>
>Third, re Hittite's doubled consonants, are you sure that when a medial
>consonant is doubled that it means "un-voiced"?
That is what Sturtevant thought.
[ Moderator's comment:
It is indeed the standard theory, though there are some who see rather lenis-
fortis than voiced/voiceless.
--rma ]
>I could have sworn it
>was meant to be the other way around which would mean that Hitt. <nekuz>
>comes from *nekwt as expected and all you have to work with is Greek to
>keep the (and I'll say it again) "flimsy" Nostratic theory afloat.
If you ever read Sturtevant, and a few other appropriate manuals, you might
be in a much better position to usefully discuss Nostratic.
[ Moderator's comment:
Sturtevant did not address the Nostratic theory of his day; he was instead
denying that the Anatolian languages were part of Indo-European proper. That
is, he fully accepted a Neogrammarian reconstruction of PIE, and was trying
to explain how Anatolian differed, rather than taking the Anatolian data as
calling for a different interpretation of the IE data already at hand. So a
reading of Sturtevant, while instructive for a budding laryngealist as to the
extremes to which it can be taken, has nothing to offer to Nostratic.
--rma ]
>The theory is flimsy because you use localized phenomena in a single IE
>language (in this case, Greek) as a means to create an unsupported IE
>reconstruction so that you can then casually link IE directly to
>Egyptian of all things.
I have also used Hittite.
[ Moderator's comment:
But you still haven't explained the rest of the Indo-European data, which at
the very least call for a labiovelar (cf. Sanskrit) and not a determinative
*-w-.
--rma ]
>You seem to forget that not only does Egyptian come from Afro-Asiatic first
>off from which many, many millenia seperate these two stages but that on top
>of it, IE and Afro-Asiatic would be seperated by a good 10,000 years or more
>by even the most right-wing Nostraticist.
That does not change a thing.
Pat
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