[Lexicog] Re: The irony of thou

[Fritz Goerling]

Bill,

 

I can't answer your question. 

I am only skeptical towards language engineering from above (in the name of
ideologies, like the attempted change of address forms by Italian fascism
under Mussolini) or by democratization. Whether a pronoun of power or one of
solidarity disappears (for a while or altogether or is reinstated) does not
change the fact that power relations will continue to exist. The fact that
modern English does not use pronouns of power and solidarity, as other
European languages do, does not mean that the power differential is done
away by the simple use of "you." While some European languages have
sociolinguistic rituals (mentioned in this discussion) to initiate intimacy
by dropping the polite pronoun, in English you have other rituals like "Just
call me Jack" (instead of Mr., Dr. etc.). I have observed though that this
step is taken very much faster in anglophone countries, especially in the
US. That is of interest to me. In northern Germany you have "to eat a sack
of salt" together with someone, i.e. spend a lot of time with someone on a
social level, before you drop the "Sie" (the polite form) in favor of the
intimate form "Du". But then you have won a friend for life. In southern
Germany (especially Bavaria) things go quicker. Especially at the
Oktoberfest .

 

Cheers!

 

Fritz

The other aspect of the tu/usted distinction about which I am
curious, and which I don't think anyone has touched on, is how
it arose in the first place. Neither Latin nor (ancient) Greek
had such a distinction (that is, it was just a singular/plural
distinction, without any connotations of intimacy or power), nor
is there any reason to think that there was such a distinction
in early Germanic, Baltic, or Slavic. Somehow the majority of
European languages developed this kind of distinction in the
Middle Ages. Why?

Bill

 

 

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