[Lexicog] The Irony of Thou

[Fritz Goerling]

I have heard “mon zami” in France. Examples can be found on the Internet
easily. 

Now the cases which I constructed for either French doctor towards Algerian
or 

Algerian doctor towards Frenchman are, of course, hypothetical. I did not
think 

of the addressee being from the upper class especially or a blue-collar
worker.  

I thought of a foreigner as a human being. 

It bothers me that people change their form of speech towards 

foreigners. This can happen in German by talking to foreigners by using a 

grammar simplified to the level of using only infinitives as a verbal form 

“du gehen Kaufhaus” (= you go store), and the informal “du” – while the 

formal respectful “Sie” would be expected. What if it turns out that the 

addressee  has received his Ph.D. in Germany and speaks 

better German than the German?! I am sure that cases like that of simplified


speech towards foreigners can be mentioned from other nationalities.

(By the way, German doctors would have to address any patient regardless of

status by the formal “Sie” – unless they are on “Du” terms already. Apart
from 

that only children are addressed by “Du”). 

 

Fritz Goerling

 

I am not familiar with /z/ linking in Algerian French. I've asked around and
none of my (younger) Algerian friends can say to be familiar with it either.
Perhaps my memory needs to be jogged on this, and I could also ask older
Algerians.
Now, the use of "tu" would be perfectly normal on the part of the French
doctor
(we are talking here of a situation occurring in France, as there no longer
are
any French doctors practicing in Algeria, or in any case not in any
significant
numbers), and he/she would expect a reciprocal "tu". Now the case would of
course not apply if the addressee was someone from the "upper classes" (I
hastily bundle the academic community, the commercially successful new
entrepreneurs, and all higher placed government officials, whether from the
army, the police, etc.). In such a situation, mutual use of "vous" would be
in
order.
Now, a Frenchman (tourist, businessman) travelling in Algeria and addressed
as
"tu" by an Algerian doctor would quite likely find it odd, and I have
serious
doubts that this could happen. Class and status consciousness would
certainly
prevent the use of "tu" by an Algerian doctor, undoubtedly perfectly "au
fait"
with such linguistic subtleties. The same Algerian doctor would of course
likely use Arabic when speaking to a compatriot, but if any French came to
be
used, the "tu" pronoun would be used both ways, unless this doctor were
adressing someone markedly from the upper classes.

Marc FRYD

Selon Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling@ <mailto:Fritz_Goerling%40sil.org>
sil.org>:

> Talking about that mock camaraderie, I wonder how an educated Algerian
would
> react when addressed by an French doctor whom he has never consulted
before
> by the question "mon zami, qu'est-ce que je peux faire pour toi? Où est-ce
> que ça te fait mal?" (not "mon ami" but "mon zami")
> (translation "my friend, what can I do for you/tu? Where does it hurt
> you/tu?)
> Now the other way round: How might a Frenchman (say an educated one) react
> if addressed in such a way by an Algerian doctor?
> In West African French (as spoken in Mali, Burkina-Faso, Côte d'Ivoire,
> Sénégal)
> one might address almost any stranger by "chef" (chief) and "tu", when
> asking for a service, like talking to a gas station attendant. "chef" is
> deprived of any formal traits in such situations, but you better address a
> policeman by "chef" and "vous."
>
> Fritz Goerling
>
> The fact that in Algerian French as used by non educated speakers one can
> combine the formal form of address "Monsieur" with the informal pronoun
"tu"
> surely means that "tu" is deprived there any informal traits.
> In Parisian French, however, I can certify that the use of "tu" by a
> complete
> stranger is in no way neutral.
> A whole range of contexts may come to mind, from the vagrant street
> person pretending to erase with the use of this pronoun any trace of
social
> division in order to gain access to that deeper level where all men are
born
> equal, etc., to the mock familiarity of the market stall vendor who is so
> confident that his putative customer shares his own passion for the
intrisic
> value of the goods he is peddling that this creates a level of complicit
> familiarity which transcends social barriers.
> If one is led, accidentally no doubt, to turn on the television these days
> and
> manages to sit through only a few minutes of one of those programmes where
a
> glitzy TV presenter welcomes a well-known politician, say someone known
for
> his
> burly character, for instance, one will note with linguistic curiosity how
> the
> presenter brings the politician to eat in his hand, so to speak, by the
mere
> use of that "tu" pronoun. The said politician will of course play ball,
> only too pleased to show that beyond all previous appearances to the
> contrary,
> he really is a very human person.
> But how resilient, really, is that mock camaraderie? Only recently on a
> forum I
> found myself drawn to use "tu" with fellow members and with one of the
> administrators, with whom I had a lengthy technical exchange of emails. I
> was
> then led to call that lady on the phone, whereupon I noted with interest
how
> insistent her use of "vous" was, throughout our conversation. The switch
> from
> the noncommittal website exchanges to the person to person oral
> conversation,
> clearly explained here the demise of our former camaraderie.
> Just one last anecdote. It is a known fact that traditional usage in upper
> class
> families required husband and wife to use "vous" when adressing each
other.
> Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir, for instance, made a point of
> adhering
> to this formal usage, no doubt in order to place their own relationship on
a
> par with their literay ambitons. However, I keep a distinct memory of a
> couple
> of Bohemian Parisian aristocrats who used unreservedly the democratic "tu"
> in
> everyday situations and who, or so they confided in me..., only shifted to
> "vous" in situations of more meaningful intimacy!
> Marc FRYD
>
> Selon Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling@ <mailto:Fritz_Goerling%40sil.org>
sil.org>:
>
> > Which French of Algiers? Street French probably. (...)>
> >
> > Fritz Goerling



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