[lg policy] Re: lgpolicy-list Digest, Vol 43, Issue 23

Wed Nov 21 04:43:13 UTC 2012

Dear All
In the discussion of 'national' and official language, there was a mention
about Hindi as a national language of India by HS. I would like to bring to
the notice of all THAT INDIA DOES NOT HAVE A NATIONAL LANGUAGE. Hindi is
the official language of India and English is Associate Official language.
There was a national commission in the 1956 on official language in India.
This was as a result of the debates in the constitutional drafting
committee that declaring Hindi as a national language may lead to
linguistic disputes and division.
Indian Constitution has a separate schedule on Languages.
RAMANUJAM MEGANATHAN
NCERT, INDIA

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:31 PM, <
lgpolicy-list-request at groups.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: national vs officila language (dzo at bisharat.net)
>    2. Re: national vs officila language (Harold Schiffman)
>    3. RE: The Dark Reality of Secession Fantasy (jayrkirk42)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:08:27 +0000
> From: dzo at bisharat.net
> Subject: Re: [lg policy] national vs officila language
> To: "Language Policy List" <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
> Message-ID:
>
> <1246215828-1353388108-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1201909381- at b14.c17.bise6.blackberry
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> I don't have access to Fishman's article at this time either, but hope
> it's okay to offer some impressions on use of the terms.
>
> As varied as the definitions of "offIcial language" may be (that subject
> has been a matter of discussion on this list), usage of "national language"
> seems even more varied and less exact.
>
> In addition to the definition mentioned by Dr. Mostari, "national
> language" may also be a category of language defined by law alongside
> "official language." This is the case in a number of African countries for
> example (notably in former French colonies). This usage has been omitted
> from some discussions of the term that I've seen.
>
> On the other hand, I have heard foreigners - again in Africa - refer to
> the official language as being the national language (meaning presumably
> that the former is intended to be used nationwide?). This sort of
> conflation of the two concepts seems to me to be fairly common.
>
> Returning to national language as a legal category in Africa, some
> countries so designate a few of the more widely spoken, while some others
> include all (indigenously spoken) languages of their population, which
> would indeed mean that some with very few speakers are considered "national
> languages."
>
> My understanding is that "national" in this context depends on how one
> means the term. Clearly "national" is not necessarily the same as
> nationwide. But it could mean that it is part of or belongs to the nation,
> even if in the case of many languages, only a minority of the population
> speaks it.
>
> Brann (1994) discusses the terminology in more detail, including 4
> meanings of "national language," and relationship to other terms. Citation
> below; there is a summary of main points on the Wikipedia article on the
> subject. (Probably should be a summary of Fishman's article there too.)
>
> Brann, C.M.B. 1994. "The National Language Question: Concepts and
> Terminology." Logos [University of Namibia, Windhoek] Vol 14: 125–134
>
> HTH,
>
> Don Osborn
>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mostari hind <hmostari at yahoo.com>
> Sender: lgpolicy-list-bounces+dzo=bisharat.net at groups.sas.upenn.edu
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:50:40
> To: Language Policy List<lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
> Reply-To: Language Policy List <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
> Subject: RE: [lg policy] national vs officila language
>
> _______________________________________________
> This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:33:11 -0500
> From: Harold Schiffman <haroldfs at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [lg policy] national vs officila language
> To: Don Osborn <dzo at bisharat.net>,      Language Policy List
>         <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
> Message-ID:
>         <CACqQ=kKv3eikJV8DLimUOkeON2CpAiU2AGeTszpK0npn=
> xpFWQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> This is a confusing topic, and I don't think there's a way to lock down a
> definition.
> In India, e.g. Hindi is the "national" language, but not the only
> "official" one, since English is also co-official at the national level.
> Then there are the "official" languages of various states, a lot of them.
>
> HS
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:08 AM, <dzo at bisharat.net> wrote:
>
> > I don't have access to Fishman's article at this time either, but hope
> > it's okay to offer some impressions on use of the terms.
> >
> > As varied as the definitions of "offIcial language" may be (that subject
> > has been a matter of discussion on this list), usage of "national
> language"
> > seems even more varied and less exact.
> >
> > In addition to the definition mentioned by Dr. Mostari, "national
> > language" may also be a category of language defined by law alongside
> > "official language." This is the case in a number of African countries
> for
> > example (notably in former French colonies). This usage has been omitted
> > from some discussions of the term that I've seen.
> >
> > On the other hand, I have heard foreigners - again in Africa - refer to
> > the official language as being the national language (meaning presumably
> > that the former is intended to be used nationwide?). This sort of
> > conflation of the two concepts seems to me to be fairly common.
> >
> > Returning to national language as a legal category in Africa, some
> > countries so designate a few of the more widely spoken, while some others
> > include all (indigenously spoken) languages of their population, which
> > would indeed mean that some with very few speakers are considered
> "national
> > languages."
> >
> > My understanding is that "national" in this context depends on how one
> > means the term. Clearly "national" is not necessarily the same as
> > nationwide. But it could mean that it is part of or belongs to the
> nation,
> > even if in the case of many languages, only a minority of the population
> > speaks it.
> >
> > Brann (1994) discusses the terminology in more detail, including 4
> > meanings of "national language," and relationship to other terms.
> Citation
> > below; there is a summary of main points on the Wikipedia article on the
> > subject. (Probably should be a summary of Fishman's article there too.)
> >
> > Brann, C.M.B. 1994. "The National Language Question: Concepts and
> > Terminology." Logos [University of Namibia, Windhoek] Vol 14: 125–134
> >
> > HTH,
> >
> > Don Osborn
> >
> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mostari hind <hmostari at yahoo.com>
> > Sender: lgpolicy-list-bounces+dzo=bisharat.net at groups.sas.upenn.edu
> > Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:50:40
> > To: Language Policy List<lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
> > Reply-To: Language Policy List <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
> > Subject: RE: [lg policy] national vs officila language
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
> > lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
> > To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format:
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> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
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>
>
>
> --
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>
>  Harold F. Schiffman
>
> Professor Emeritus of
>  Dravidian Linguistics and Culture
> Dept. of South Asia Studies
> University of Pennsylvania
> Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305
>
> Phone:  (215) 898-7475
> Fax:  (215) 573-2138
>
> Email:  haroldfs at gmail.com
> http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:50:42 -0600
> From: jayrkirk42 <jayrkirk42 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: [lg policy] The Dark Reality of Secession Fantasy
> To: Language Policy List <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
> Message-ID: <9yeqa5h1u9s0dha0bnb35tc8.1353426642643 at email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Martyrdom syndrome - everybody's got it, legitimate or not. If you
> perceive that your ideology is being persecuted, it somehow makes it more
> legitimate.
>
> I enjoyed this, being a Floridian recently transplanted to Texas. In
> Florida I grew up with the regional identity of the South being important.
> In Texas, the state identity of being Texan is the big deal. In both cases,
> there was a sense that these identities are more American than America
> itself, as you said. Granted, Texans would probably be fine having their
> own identity, since they aghast do, anyway.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G TouchGareth Price <garethowenprice at gmail.com>
> wrote:Hi All,
>
> I thought some of you might find interesting a recent op-ed I wrote for
> the Huffington Post. It's on language, nationalism and the recent secession
> petitions in the US:
>
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/garethprice/secession-petitions_b_2152763.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
>
> (If that link breaks, then this one is shorter: http://tinyurl.com/c35d6fn
> )
> Comments welcome - bearing in mind that some of the nuances of the issues
> have to be glossed over for a non-academic audience.
>
> There's also a couple of older pieces on language and politics, here:
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/garethprice/
>
> Apologies for the paucity of my contributions to the list this year ...
> I've been snowed under ...
>
> Best,
>
> Gareth
>
> --
> Gareth Price, Ph.D
> Visiting Assistant Professor
> Linguistics Program
> Duke University
> 316 Languages, Box 90259
> Durham, NC 27708-0259
> USA
>
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